HC Deb 15 October 1940 vol 365 cc588-9

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of Mr. SIMMONDS:

38. To ask the Home Secretary what steps he has taken to render trench shelters dry; and why head wardens receive no payment in respect of their supervisory duties other than the normal wardens' pay?

Mr. Simmonds

This Question as it appears on the Paper really includes two different Questions. Could my hon. Friend who is to reply deal with them separately?

Mr. Mabane

I will deal with both points. I fully appreciate the importance of keeping shelters dry, but the standard trench design does not appear to give rise to much difficulty in this respect. If, however, my hon. Friend is aware of cases and will communicate them to me, I shall certainly look into the matter. As regards the second part of the Question, the nature of the wardens' service did not make a system of pay for rank necessary or appropriate, but the matter is now under re-examination.

Mr. Simmonds

With regard to the first part of the answer, is it not a fact that a large number of these trenches are in fact waterlogged and that it is a very difficult problem? With regard to the second part, is my hon. Friend aware that, both in the first-aid service and in the fire service, extra pay is given for supervisory work; and does he realise that head wardens feel that there is a great injustice in their case?

Mr. Mabane

As regards the first part of the Question, the standard trench, I am informed, does not show any tendency to become waterlogged, but if my hon. Friend has any cases in mind, I shall be very glad to have them investigated. As regards the second part of his Question, as I said in my earlier answer, the matter is now under examination.

Mr. Woodburn

Would the Minister also consider the position of lay leaders, as they are grumbling as well as the head wardens?

Mr. Mabane

In Scotland there is a category which is, I think, described sometimes as lay readers, and I understand that they have pay above the basic rate.