HC Deb 20 June 1940 vol 362 cc250-4
Mr. Lees-Smith

May I ask the Lord Privy Seal what is to be the business for next week?

Mr. Attlee

The business for next week will be as follows:

Tuesday: Supply (14th Allotted Day); Committee. Debate on Evacuation of Children Overseas.

Wednesday: Second Reading of the Courts (Emergency Powers) Amendment Bill [Lords]; Middlesex Deeds Bill [Lords]; and Truck Bill. Committee and remaining stages of the War Charities Bill [Lords]. Second Reading of the Indian and Colonial Divorce Jurisdiction Bill [Lords]. Motion to approve the Clearing Office (Rumania) Amendment Order.

Thursday: Supply (15th Allotted Day); Committee. Ministry of Supply Vote to be considered.

Mr. Lees-Smith

Will the Lord Privy Seal bear in mind, with reference to Thursday's business, concerning the Ministry of Supply, that after the Minister has made his statement in public a number of Members will probably wish to raise points which could not suitably be raised in public, and that at that stage there may be a desire that the House should resolve itself into Secret Session?

Mr. Attlee

I think that point is well worth consideration, and the Government will take it into consideration. If the House so desires, it can go into Secret Session.

Mr. Cocks

In view of the number of Members who want to take part in the Debate to-day, will the Lord Privy Seal consider continuing this Debate either tomorrow or on one day next week?

Mr. Attlee

I think it would be undesirable to continue this Debate tomorrow. The Debate is on the Adjournment, and if the House desired another day for the Debate, it would always be possible to indicate that. We had better see how we go to-day.

Mr. E. Smith

Will the Lord Privy Seal consider the advisability of arranging for the Ministry of Aircraft Production Vote to be considered at the same time? There is a number of issues which are inseparable, and as this Ministry has only recently been set up, it may be desirable that the two Departments should be considered together.

Mr. Attlee

Yes, I will certainly consider my hon. Friend's suggestion.

Sir H. Williams

May I ask at whose suggestion the two Supply subjects for next week were selected?

Mr. Attlee

An endeavour is made to find out what is the general wish of the House, and that is what was done on this occasion.

Mr. Cocks

On Tuesday we are to discuss the evacuation of children to other countries. I understand the Debate will take place on the Dominions Vote, but that would confine us to considering evacuation to the Dominions. Could not the Government also bring up the Foreign Office Vote, so that we can discuss also the question of evacuation to America?

Mr. Attlee

We shall put down the appropriate Votes.

Sir H. Williams

Further to the point that I raised just now, will the Lord Privy Seal indicate what steps were taken to consult various points of opinion before the subjects for next week were selected?

Mr. Attlee

The hon. Member will recall that when this point was raised before the statement was made that if there was a general desire to discuss any subject, there should be an opportunity to do so. It is quite impossible to indicate exactly which Members were asked. An endeavour is made to find out whether there is a considerable volume of opinion in the House desiring that a certain subject shall be discussed, but it is impossible to put the matter in further detail.

Sir H. Williams

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—

Mr. Speaker

We cannot have a discussion on this point.

Sir H. Williams

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. You ruled some considerable time ago that ex-Ministers were entitled to sit on this Bench, and in accordance with that Ruling a certain number of right hon. and hon. Members have exercised that privilege.

Mr. Davidson

We cannot help that.

Sir H. Williams

There have since been discussions as to the procedure that might be followed, quite apart from the present occupancy of this Bench. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that the usual channels, as commonly understood, must function as they normally function. Surely there must be accorded, in some appropriate way, a means of ascertaining what may be the desire of Members of all political parties. I asked my question deliberately. I am not seeking any special privilege for myself. Despite efforts made by others to deprive Members of Parliament of their rights in this matter, I am speaking, I know, on behalf of a very large number of Members who wish to have it clearly established that there should be some procedure, giving to what represents, after all, not a minority of this House, but a majority, the opportunity of exercising this privilege.

Sir Percy Harris

Is it not a fact that any hon. or right hon. Member can make suggestions to the Government if he so desires, and is it not also a fact that the Government are ready to receive suggestions of any sort from wheresoever they come?

Mr. Maxton

I would like to say a word on this matter. I would like to know whether, in choosing these Supply days, there is complete harmony in the Whips' room about it. It seems to me that there is surely something wrong in the Government Whips' department, if there is agreement in the Whips' room, and then, locally expressed disagreement in the House. Is it now the settled view of this House, as expressed by the hon. Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris), that Supply days are chosen by the Government? An essential part of the Constitution has been that Supply days were chosen by others than the Government. I would ask the Lord Privy Seal, further, whether the Prime Minister did not promise the House of Commons that, having regard to the new situation, and the impossibility of getting an official Opposition in the ordinary and accepted sense of the term, a new procedure would be developed by which the wishes of back benchers who were not in the Government—

Mr. Speaker

I understood that the hon. Gentleman was putting a point of Order to me, but I am getting rather confused with it.

Mr. Maxton

I was not putting a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, but was putting certain questions to the Leader of the House. Was not a promise given by—

Mr. Speaker

A point of Order was put to me by the hon. Member for South Croydon (Sir H. Williams), and my reply to him is that, at this time of acute crisis through which the country is passing, an attempt is being made to have a united House of Commons. It is difficult, in a House of 615 Members, to have complete agreement, as there are sure to be some Members who are dissatisfied. I am afraid that will always be so. But, as far as possible, we must try to avoid party differences. As regards the subjects to be discussed in Supply, every effort will be made to ascertain the wishes of the House, as a whole, and not of parties in particular.

Mr. Maxton

Why not suspend the Constitution?

Colonel Wedgwood

May I ask a supplementary question on business? I understand that on Tuesday we are to discuss the evacuation of children upon the Dominion Vote. Many of us want to discuss emigration to America. When we had a Debate upon evacuation, discussion of most of the Dominions was ruled out of order because they could not be debated under the Votes which were on the Paper. I want to be certain that, on Tuesday next, questions which are appropriate to the Foreign Office will not be excluded from the Debate because it is a Dominions Vote which is being discussed. I want to be certain that we may deal with the whole question.

Mr. Attlee

Evidently the right hon. and gallant Gentleman did not hear the question which was asked me by another hon. Member. I replied that we shall endeavour to put down the Votes which will give the greatest range possible.

Sir William Davison

Would it not be possible in future that these unseemly wrangles about procedure, which are suitable in peace-time but not in war-time, should be conducted by the House in private Session, so that it should not be made the laughing stock of the world?