HC Deb 21 August 1940 vol 364 cc1310-2
Mr. Gordon Macdonald

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary for Mines whether he is in a position to make a statement on the proposed scheme for the distribution and sale of house coal; whether all the parties interested have been consulted on the policy and the detailed proposals affecting the purchase, and transportation and the retail delivery of house coal; and whether the Mines Department has given approval to the scheme as it was submitted by the coal distributing trade?

The Secretary for Mines (Mr. David Grenfell)

In order to safeguard the house coal position for next winter to the maximum possible extent, discussions have been proceeding between the Mines Department, the distributors and the coal-owners on comprehensive proposals for making the most efficient use of available transport facilities, both in regard to the movement of coal by rail and sea from collieries to depôts and also from depôts to consumers. The progressive withdrawal of men and vehicles for military service is making it imperative in most areas to introduce at an early date cooperative arrangements for the retail distribution of house coal which shall gradually ensure that delivery is made from the most convenient depôt and with the minimum of overlapping. With the approval and co-operation of my Department, steps are now being taken by the distributive trade to organise arrange ments of this character wherever necessary, the details being adjusted to the circumstances of each area. The problem of facilitating the movement of coal by rail and sea is no less urgent, and I am anxious that a decision on this part of the scheme should be reached as soon as possible. It involves, however, many interests and conflicting considerations, and discussions are still going on with all the parties directly concerned.

Mr. Macdonald

May I ask my hon. Friend, first, whether this scheme will add to the price of coal to the home consumers; secondly, why, having consulted the Mining Association, he failed to consult the Mineworkers' Federation of Great Britain; and, thirdly, whether present schemes under past Acts of Parliament do not provide sufficient machinery to deal with this question?

Mr. Grenfell

The answer to my hon. Friend's first Question is that it is proposed in this scheme that a levy of 1½d a ton shall be charged on all coal sold to meet the expenses of control and supervision. Secondly, the partners in the industry have all been made aware of these proposals. It is not usually required by the Mineworkers' Federation that they should take part in negotiations of this kind, but they have been made aware of the proposals by the Consultative Committee, of which they are members, with the other parties. Thirdly, there is nothing in the law or in regulations that enables us to do what we shall do under this scheme.

Mr. Rhys Davies

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the interests of the men who distribute the coal from door to door?

Mr. Grenfell

Many of the men who distribute the coal from door to door are being called away. One of the major reasons for this scheme of reorganisation is the fact that coal loaders and lorry drivers are due for military service, and their calling up has been postponed by special arrangements from month to month. Many of the people will have gone away by October, and we must have a scheme to make better use of the equipment and labour available.

Lieut.-Colonel Sir Ronald Ross

Does the scheme embrace Northern Ireland, and, if so, who represented the interests of Northern Ireland in the consultations?

Mr. Grenfell

I am sorry that I do not know whether Northern Ireland has taken part in these discussions. These discussions have taken place between the organised coal merchants in this country, numbering some 27,000, and representatives of the owners and the Mines Department. If Northern Ireland has been left out of the scheme and is likely to suffer in consequence, even now I invite them to come in.

Sir R. Ross

Is it no matter to the Minister that a country with a population of the size of that of New Zealand should be entirely ignored in such matters?

Mr. Grenfell

Not only because of the number of the population, but because of the qualities of the people, I would not entirely ignore Northern Ireland.