REGIONAL COMMISSIONERS BILL. (Hansard, 1 September 1939)

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Sir John Anderson)
I beg to move "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The purpose of the Bill can be explained in a few words. It does two things. It provides for the payment of salaries and allowances for expenses of regional commissioners and deputy regional commissioners appointed by His Majesty under the scheme of regional organisation for Civil Defence, also of any district commissioner or deputy district commissioner appointed by the Secretary of State for Scotland for similar duties there. In the second place, the Bill provides that in the event of an hon. Member of this House being appointed to one of these positions —as the House knows several hon. Members have indicated their readiness to undertake these important duties—the disqualification which normally attaches to a Member accepting an office of profit under the Crown shall not apply. That provision would be necessary, even if in an individual case the person appointed elected to serve without remuneration, the office being of a class to which payment of remuneration attaches.

§ Mr. Noel-Baker
The purpose of the Bill is to provide money and to make other arrangements in connection with affairs which have been before the House already and which have received general agreement. Therefore, we have no objection to make and we hope the Bill will receive a rapid passage.

§ Mr. Stephen
May we be informed what is the amount of remuneration for a dis- 210 trict commissioner in Scotland and a deputy district commissioner, and whether any provision is made that they shall not hold any other office, such as director of a company, or anything like that?

§ Mr. Mander
Although this Bill will permit the Minister to pay salaries to these regional commissioners and the other persons described in the Bill, I take it that the right hon. Gentleman will be prepared to say that a considerable number of the commissioners will be serving without any remuneration. We do not want the idea to go out that every one of these persons is going to be heavily paid. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will indicate what is the maximum salary. I think it is about £1,500 a year.

§ Mr. E. Smith
Before we pass this Bill I hope we shall have an indication that local opinion will be considered. I heard two hon. Members not long ago discussing whether certain Commissioners were carrying out their duties in the lines laid down by this House and in conformity with local opinion. I hope the Minister will see that the Commissioners give consideration to municipal opinion and to trade union opinion, and that where the local authority cannot obtain satisfaction they will have the right to lay their complaint before the Minister. It is well that these matters should give no cause for grievance. The less grievances arise the better will be the spirit of our people.

§ Mr. Boothby
We shall be glad to hear from the right hon. Gentleman what salary the Commissioner for Scotland is to be paid. I welcome the Bill on general grounds because I think that latterly the House has been getting into the position of saying that no Member of the House shall ever be appointed to an administrative office of any sort of kind. A more preposterous suggestion I have never heard. I think this is a good precedent and I hope that His Majesty's Government will not allow any archaic prejudices dating from the reign of Queen Elizabeth to stand in the way of an hon. Member of this House being appointed to any office which the Government think he can efficiently discharge.

§ Mr. Gordon Macdonald
I should like to know who is going to decide whether a commissioner is to be paid or not. In the 211 Bill I think it is a matter for the individual concerned as to whether he will give voluntary service or not. Who is to determine whether the service is to be paid or not?

§ Mr. G. Griffiths
I cannot see why a Member of Parliament drawing £600 a year who is appointed to one of these posts should not be allowed to have any remuneration while another person who is already getting £4,000 a year is going to have remuneration for this work. The Member of Parliament with his £600 may be quite as efficient as the man who is drawing £4,000 somewhere else, but he is not going to get any remuneration. Men who are getting big salaries now, have so much work that they do not know how to manage it, but they can manage this job and, if they are appointed, some of their other work has to be given to someone else and they are retaining the salaries that they were getting previously.

§ Sir J. Anderson
The terms in which the Clause dealing with remuneration has been drawn are, I think, common form. The Clause is permissive. It gives authority to the Government to pay remuneration out of moneys provided by Parliament at such rates as the Treasury may approve. The Treasury authority extends to the payment of a salary up to £2,500 to a regional commissioner and £1,000 to a deputy regional commissioner. In the case of district commissioners and deputy district commissioners the corresponding figures are £1,000 and £750. It is a fact that certain gentlemen who have been designated to hold these appointments have indicated that they would prefer to receive no remuneration. The view taken by the Government is that such a wish should be respected, but certainly without implying any reflection upon others who are not in a position to make such an offer. As regards the point put by the hon. Member for Camlachie (Mr. Stephen), the Bill does not deal with such matters as that which he raised. In regard to the points put by the hon. Members for Stoke (Mr. E. Smith) and Ince (Mr. G. Macdonald), the position is that regional commissioners, deputy regional commissioners, district commissioners and deputy district commissioners will hold public office under His Majesty's Gov- 212 erment, to whose direction they will at all times be subject, and it will be for His Majesty's Government to satisfy themselves continuously that these gentlemen are carrying out satisfactorily the functions assigned to them. In that respect they will be in exactly the same position as other public officials.