HC Deb 17 July 1939 vol 350 cc142-7

Considered in Committee.

[Sir Dennis Herbert in the Chair.] 1. Whereas it appears by the Navy Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1938, that the aggregate expenditure on Navy Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services, and that, as shown in the Schedule hereto appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Navy Services over the net Expenditure is £172,703 2s. 11d., namely:

£ s. d.
Total Surpluses 3,177,731 1 2
Total Deficits 3,005,027 18 3
Net Surplus £172,703 2 11

And whereas the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Navy Services as is necessary to make good the said total deficits on other Grants for Navy Services.

SCHEDULE.
No. of Vote. Navy Services, 1937, Votes. Deficits. Surpluses.
Excesses of actual over estimated gross Expenditure. Deficiencies of actual as compared with estimated Receipts. Surpluses of estimated over actual gross Expenditure. Surpluses of actual as compared with estimated Receipts.
£ s. d. £ s d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Wages, etc., of Officers, Seamen, Boys, and Royal Marines, and Civilians employed on Fleet Services — — 145,042 6 0 66,192 8 0
2 Victualling and Clothing … 78,837 3 9 — — 46,842 19 10
3 Medical Establishments and Services. 37,585 4 3 — — 2,139 3 10
4 Fleet Air Arm — — — —
5 Educational Services … 7,550 3 11 — — 1,119 8 6
6 Scientific Services … — — 26,814 2 2 22,561 3 7
7 Royal Naval Reserves … — 63 15 0 21,637 14 10 —
8 Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc.:
Sec. 1. Personnel Sec. … 11,299 19 9 — — 27,694 19 5
Sec. 2. Materiel … 43,573 6 5 — — 129,236 9 0
Sec. 3. Contract W … — 1,069,311 15 4 1,055,797 13 10 —
9 Naval Armaments … — 1,220,418 15 11 1,066,037 0 7 —
10 Works, Buildings, and Repairs — 337,878 10 0 403,111 1 10 —
11 Miscellaneous Effective Services 161,050 11 4 — — 68,693 8 2
12 Admiralty office … … 32,447 7 4 103 0 10 —
13 Non-Effective Services (Naval and Marine), Officers. — — 36,496 18 1 2,113 6 2
14 Non-Effective Services (Naval and Marine), Men 1,754 16 11 1,292 4 1 — —
15 Civil Superannuation, Compensation Allowances, and Gratuities. — 162 7 1 56,200 17 4 —
— Balances irrecoverable and Claims abandoned. 1,698 16 4 — — —
375,797 10 0 2,629,230 8 3 2,811,137 14 8 366,393 6 6
Total Deficits £3,005,027 18 3 Total Surpluses £3,177,731 1 2
Net Surplus… £172,703 2 11"

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."— [Captain Crookshank.]

Mr. Ede

I do not see the representative of the Admiralty in his place. I know that he represents the "silent Service," but even so, he might at least be in a position where he can become vocal if necessary. Are we to have no explanation from the Treasury Bench of this Resolution?

9.13 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. Shakespeare)

Certainly, if the Committee desires. These are formal Resolutions which are moved at this time of year, as soon as the Public Accounts Committee has reported, in order to give Parliamentary sanction to the power which the Treasury is authorised to exercise on behalf of Parliament to enable surpluses in one Vote to be used to make good the deficiencies in another. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick-Lawrence) will remember that when he was Financial Secretary to the Treasury, year by year these Resolutions were formally moved. They deal with this power, which is known as virement and are in order to show that Parliament has complete power over the Treasury. They are formally submitted in respect of all the three Services year by year. So, we maintain the absolute supremacy of Parliament in matters of finance.

Mr. Ede

That possibly explains why the hon. Gentleman was sitting much further along the bench a moment ago, but there are one or two items here, on which I think we are entitled to some explanation.

The Chairman

I am afraid not on this occasion. The items in the Schedule cannot be discussed on this Resolution.

SCHEDULE.
No. of Vote. Army Services, 1937, Votes. Deficits. Surpluses.
Excesses of actual over estimated gross Expenditure. Deficiencies of actual as compared with estimated Receipts. Surpluses of estimated over actual gross Expenditure. Surpluses of actual as compared with estimated Receipts.
£ s. d. £ s d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Pay, etc., of the Army … — — 782,474 18 9 583,533 14 1 1
2 Territorial Army and Reserve Forces. 173,555 2 4 3,364 5 1 — —
3 Medical Services … … 28,537 15 7 — — 8,265 17 7
4 Educational Establishments. — — 12,421 0 0 8,301 15 7
5 Quartering and Movements Supplies, Road Transport, 110,984 1 9 — — 4,274 4 9
6 Supplies, Road Transport, and Remounts 280,228 4 10 — — 76,659 1 3
7 Clothing … … … 45,006 18 1 18,865 3 4 — —
8 General Stores … … 157,678 7 2 — — 137,615 1 8
9 Warlike Stores … … — 7,879,846 18 10 7.324,133 19 3 —
10 Works, Buildings, and Lands. — 966,693 11 2 1,097,135 19 9 —
11 Miscellaneous Effective Services. — 95,784 14 3 217,732 0 4 —
12 War Office … … 33,238 8 1 — — 125 10 9
13 Half-Pay, Retired Pay, and other Non-effective Charges for Officers. — 25,675 10 5 16,166 19 6 —
14 Pensions and other Non-effective Charges for Warrant Officers, Non commissioned Officers, 57,425 17 0 — — 15,510 17 10
15 Civil Superannuation.Compensation, and Gratuities 16,067 1 10 — — 221 9 5
— Balances irrecoverable and Claims abandoned. 6,041 0 9 — — —
908,762 17 5 8,990,230 3 1 9,450,064 17 7 833,507 12 11
Total Deficits £9,898,993 0 6 Total Surpluses £10,283,572 10 6
Net Surplus … 384,579 10 0"
" II. Whereas it appears by the Army Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1938, that the aggregate Expenditure on Army Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services and that, as shown in the Schedule here to appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Army Services over the net Expenditure is 384,579 10s., namely:
£ s. d.
Total Surpluses 10,283,572 10 6
Total Deficits 9,898,993 0 6
Net Surplus £384,579 10 0

And whereas the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Army Services as is necessary to make good the said total deficits on other Grants for Army Services.

Resolved, "That the application of such sums be sanctioned." — [Captain Crookshank.] III. Whereas it appears by the Air Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1938, that the aggregate Expenditure on Air Services has not exceeded the aggregate sums appropriated for those Services and that, as shown in the Schedule hereto appended, the net surplus of the Exchequer Grants for Air Services over the net Expenditure is £700,839 14s. 2d., namely:

Schedule.
No. of Vote. Air Services, 1937, Votes. Deficits. Surpluses.
Excesses of actual over estimated gross Expenditure. Deficiencies of actual as compared with estimated Receipts. Surpluses of estimated over actual gross Expenditure. Surpluses of actual as compared with estimated Receipts.
£ s. d. £ s d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
1 Pay, etc., of the Royal Air Force — — 147,684 0 3 1,808 0 1
2 Quartering, Stores (except Technical), Supplies, and Transportation. 32,996 9 11 — — 19,722 13 3
3 Technical and Warlike Stores (including Experimental and Research Services). — — 71,915 14 7 36,379 18 0
4 Works, Buildings, and Lands. — 14,501 12 5 171,898 1 2 —
5 Medical Services … 20,632 8 6 — — 2,340 4 6
6 Technical Training and Educational Services. 485 14 1 1,829 1 4 — —
7 Auxiliary and Reserve Forces — 10 7 6 70,109 3 5 —
8 Civil Aviation … … — 8,974 1 5 240,827 15 1 —
9 Meteorological and Miscellaneous Effective Services. — — 3,380 13 11 9,511 18 2
10 Air Ministry … … 24,117 10 0 — — 752 11 4
11 Half-Pay, Pensions, and other Non-effective Services. — — 24,477 16 8 4,259 19 6
— Balances irrecoverable and Claims abandoned. 3,681 10 7 — — —
81,913 13 1 25,315 2 8 733,293 5 1 74,775 4 10
Total Deficits £107,228 15 9 Total Surpluses £808,068 9 11
Net Surplus … £700,839 14 2"

Resolved, "That the application of such sums be sanctioned." — [Captain Crookshank.]

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.