§ 11. Mr. Gallacherasked the Prime Minister what steps are being taken by the British consular authorities in the Spanish Republic to expedite the return of the demobilised members of the British battalion of the International Brigade?
§ 15. Mr. Viantasked the Prime Minister whether he is now in a position to state when the British section of the International Brigade of volunteers who were engaed in Spain are likely to reach this country?
§ 18. Mr. Watkinsasked the Prime Minister whether he has considered the representations of relatives of British volunteers who have been withdrawn from the Spanish Government forces for weeks and are now on the French-Spanish border; and whether he will take steps to expedite the return of these men to this country?
§ 21. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether he can make any statement about the obstacles raised by the French Government to the return of British volunteers from Spain to England through France?
§ Mr. ButlerHis Majesty's Government have taken steps to facilitate the repatriation of these volunteers, including those referred to by the hon. Member for Central Hackney (Mr. Watkins), but the administrative difficulties connected with establishing the identities of large numbers of men, most of whom left this country without passports, and with obtaining permission for them to travel through France, have inevitably taken some little time to overcome. I am glad to say that, thanks largely to the helpful attitude of the French Government, the necessary arrangements are now virtually complete, and although I cannot promise any definite date, it is expected that the men will leave for this country in a week or ten days' time.
§ Mr. GallacherIn view of the fact that these men have been demobilised for two months and have been waiting and expecting week after week to be returned, will the Minister see that everything possible is done to get them home as soon as possible?
§ Mr. ButlerI appreciate the anxiety of the hon. Member, and that is why we have taken particular trouble to overcome the difficulties to which I have referred.
§ Mr. FlemingAre we to understand that the cost of repatriating these volunteers of the International Brigade is falling upon the British taxpayer?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir, not necessarily so. Anyone who is in a position to refund the cost will be asked to do so.
§ Mr. WatkinsIs the hon. Member aware that nationals of other countries have been repatriated in a much smaller 391 space of time than our own countrymen? Will he do his utmost to get these men back as soon as possible?
§ Mr. ButlerCertainly. That is our object.
Miss RathboneWas it not understood that the cost of repatriation should be borne by the countries represented on the Non-Intervention Committee? Why should these men have to pay their own costs, when they have voluntarily come back?
§ Mr. ButlerIf the hon. Lady will refer to my answer she will see that if any volunteer is able to refund the cost of his repatriation, it seems reasonable that he should do so. Under the Non-Intervention Committee's plan, part of the cost would have have been borne by the countries concerned.
§ 22. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether he will ask General Franco to effect the immediate release of all prisoners held by him who are British subjects?
§ Mr. ButlerHis Majesty's Government consider that these prisoners' release can best be effected on an exchange basis, and I am glad to say that negotiations for such an exchange are now almost completed.
§ Mr. StraussExchanged for whom? For British prisoners in the hands of the Spanish Government?
§ Mr. ButlerThese matters are in the hands of the Commission under Sir Philip Chetwode, and I should require notice of any further question.
§ 24. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister how many British ships have been hit by air-bombs in Spanish Government ports since 1st October last?
§ Mr. ButlerAccording to my Noble Friend's information, nine British ships have received direct hits in Spanish Government ports during this period.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerCan the hon. Member say how many protests have been made to General Franco and Signor Mussolini?
§ Mr. ButlerI cannot, without notice, give the exact number of protests that have been made to the Burgos authorities.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerHave any protests been made since 1st October?
§ Mr. ButlerNo doubt, protests have been made where we have regarded the attacks as deliberate.
Mr. AlexanderMay I ask the Prime Minister whether we may take it that when he goes to Rome he will raise specifically the attacks by bombing planes on British ships, to the great danger of British lives and British property?
§ Mr. Butler rose—
Mr. AlexanderOn a point of Order. May I put it to you, Mr. Speaker, that we understood many months ago that the Prime Minister would answer questions put to him in this House on foreign policy? In this case a matter affecting his own personal action has been put to him, and we are entitled to a reply?
§ Mr. SpeakerI take it the Prime Minister can discriminate between one question and another.
§ Mr. AttleeWhen this matter was raised, it was specifically stated by the Prime Minister that on matters involving policy, main matters, he would answer when he was present. He is present now. He has had a question put to him specifically relating to his own personal activities, and it is not fair to the House that it should be put off, and put on to the Under-Secretary.
§ The Prime MinisterI have no objection to answering the question, if I am allowed to do so. I said before I went to Paris that I was not prepared to say before-hand what was going to be discussed, and I am in the same position to-day with regard to my visit to Signor Mussolini.
§ 25. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister whether Signor Mussolini made it plain in the first conversations between His Majesty's Government and the Italian Government in the month of March, 1938, that he was not prepared to see General Franco defeated?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerMay I ask on what evidence His Majesty's Government founded the view expressed by the Foreign Secretary in the House of Lords 393 that Signor Mussolini had made it plain in the first conversations that he was not prepared to see Franco beaten?
§ Mr. ButlerThe conversations to which my Noble Friend referred had relation to the bringing into force of the Anglo-Italian Agreement.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIs it not a fact that there is not one word in the Foreign Secretary's speech about conversations relating to the bringing into force of the Treaty? He only referred to the first conversations, which took place in March.
§ Mr. ButlerI am told by my Noble Friend that the conversations he had in mind were the conversations relating to the coming into force of the Agreement.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at an early date.
§ Mr. Benn(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister what replies have been received by His Majesty's Consul at Palma, and by the British Agent at Burgos, to their request for the release of the wheat ships; by what type of vessel these ships were captured, and why there was a delay of five days in demanding the release of the "Mount Cynthos"; and whether other British cargoes are similarly held by the Spanish rebel forces?
§ The Prime MinisterMy Noble Friend hopes shortly to receive reports from the British Agent at Burgos and His Majesty's Consul at Palma. The instructions to which the right hon. Gentleman refers were despatched as soon as full details of the nature of the cargo of the "Mount Cynthos" were available. Certain other foreign ships with British cargoes have been held, and representations have been made.
§ At the end of Questions—
§ Mr. BennI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the failure of His Majesty's Government to take effective action to secure the immediate release of British cargoes illegally held by the Spanish rebels.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman asks leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public import- 394 ance, namely, "the failure of His Majesty's Government to take effective action to secure the immediate release of British cargoes illegally held by the Spanish rebels." The question is still under consideration and communications are going on with the authorities, and I certainly could not allow the right hon. Gentleman's request.
Mr. HennOn a point of Order. May I draw your attention to the fact that ineffective protests of this character have been going on for months, and that the appearance of an order or a British warship at Palma would secure the immediate release of these vessels?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe right hon. Gentleman must remember that the Standing Order under which he asks leave to move the Adjournment of the House is that it must be on a definite matter of urgent public importance.
§ Mr. BennI know, Sir, but the definiteness is the capture of British cargoes and the urgency is the failure of the Government to secure their release, which could be done in half an hour if they wished to do it.
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is a matter of opinion.
Mr. AlexanderMay I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that this matter is of the most definite and urgent importance, because of the hourly effect upon our commerce in London? I put it to the House yesterday, to the Under-Secretary of State, that the insurance rates had already risen in 24 hours from 7s. 6d. to 40s. per cent. because of the seizure of these ships. I am assured this morning that later in the day many contracts of insurance had risen to 10 guineas per cent. and that the whole, immediate, commercial position is endangered by the failure of the Government to take action effectively on 24th November. It is now 30th November, and still the position is in chaos.
§ Mr. SpeakerAll that may be quite true, but it does not alter my opinion.
§ Mr. Benjamin SmithAre we to understand that the Government look upon a complete act of piracy as something about which they should negotiate?
§ Mr. BennOn the matter of urgency, may I mention that I understand, although I have no official confirmation, 395 that a third ship has been taken to Palma with another British cargo? May I urge that as a consideration why the Government should take immediate and effective action?
§ Mr. SpeakerIt is perfectly clear to me that the matter which the right hon. Gentleman is raising does not come under the Standing Order.
§ Mr. AttleeMay I ask you, Mr. Speaker, what action it is possible for this House to take when there is a matter which requires, in the opinion of many Members, urgent action and the Government do not propose to take any urgent, immediate action at all? I am submitting to you that the purpose of the Standing Order is to allow this House immediately to bring before the Government, the House and the country something that requires immediate action, and in view of what my right hon. Friend the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) has said of the effect of what is going on at this moment, our demand is that something should be done to stop it at once.
§ Mr. SpeakerI understand that the Government are now engaged in negotiations.
§ Mr. AttleeThe point is that we have had no suggestion by the Government that they are taking urgent action. I would remind you that during the last two years we have been told again and again that representations are being made, and all our experience is that nothing whatever happens after the representations. That is why we are asking for more drastic action in this case in view of its grave repercussions on British commerce.
§ The Prime MinisterI submit, in view of what the right hon. Gentleman has said, that the Government have taken what, obviously, must be the first step to be taken in a matter of this kind, namely, to make representations to the authorities concerned. Our agent is now at this moment engaged in these representations, and until we get his report it is impossible for us to take any further action.
§ Mr. AttleeIn these matters where there is a grave issue at stake it is usual for a Government that means business to demand an answer—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"]—yes, to demand a reply at 396 once or within a certain period of time, and we have had no indication whatever from the Government—
§ Mr. H. G. WilliamsOn a point of Order.
§ Mr. SpeakerWe can have only one point of Order at a time. I understand the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition is putting his point of Order.
§ Mr. AttleeThe point I am putting is that we are asking what effective action will be taken immediately, but all that we have had as a reply from the Government is that they are pursuing what, in our view, is the usual dilatory course of action in any complaint made in matters of this kind. We wish for some assurance—and that is why we are asking leave to move the Adjournment—that there will be something more than the kind of representations and dilatory methods that we have had during the last two years on all these questions.
§ Mr. H. G. WilliamsOn a point of Order. Before you deal, Mr. Speaker, with the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman, may I ask whether it is competent for hon. Members to make controversial speeches in raising a point of Order?
§ Mr. MaxtonMay I put this point to the Prime Minister? You have ruled, Mr. Speaker, that this is not a matter you can accept as coming under the Standing Order, and I do not see that there is anything else that the House can do but accept your Ruling. Surely, however, the Government will not evade discussion on a point of this importance, and surely the Prime Minister will make time available at the earliest possible moment for a discussion.
§ The Prime MinisterI do not know whether I may be allowed to say that the following report has come in at this moment from Palma:
Ships not yet released; mistake is admitted and is acknowledged.
§ Mr. DaltonIn view of the admission by the rebel Powers that they have seized British cargoes, are the Government prepared to demand that they shall at once be released?
§ Commander MarsdenMay I draw attention to the fact that the delay was 397 not unreasonable as these ships had already run contraband cargo into Government ports?
§ Mr. SpeakerWe cannot have a debate on the subject.
§ Mr. BennArising from the Prime Minister's reply, for which I thank him, is it not a fact that the masters of these ships carried certificates from the British Consul certifying that they were British-owned cargoes?
§ Mr. BellengerI want to ask your guidance, Mr. Speaker, on this point. Is it in order to ask the Prime Minister, in view of the explicit statement he has made, whether these ships will be released immediately?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe question cannot be discussed now.
§ Mr. Garro JonesOn a point of Order. May I say with great respect to you, Mr. Speaker, that it is not my fault that I have to raise this question after a long series of previous questions, but I have risen at least six times before? I desire to ask you whether you will consider a further aspect of this matter, namely, the constraint of British officers of the British Mercantile Marine and seamen, and how long they must be illegally constrained before a matter of this importance can be brought up for discussion?
§ Mr. SpeakerThat is not a point of Order.