CLAUSE 14.—(Powers of the Commission in relation to underground land other than coal.) (Hansard, 30 March 1938)

§ The Attorney-General
I beg to move, in page 16, line 26, to leave out the first "sub-section" and to insert "section."
The purpose of this Clause is to provide that if the Commission desire to work underground they shall not be impeded by the fact that they may be technically committing a trespass. It is not desired that they should have the power to do damage without bearing the cost of it, but without this Clause they might be technically trespassing if they were carrying on operations below the surface of other people's ground. It was suggested in Committee that the Clause as drafted did not adequately provide for access when their underground operations might injure other people's underground workings, and it was also suggested that the wording of what, was then sub-section (2) was somewhat obscure with regard to their rights in respect of existing easements. By a series of four Amendments we are abolishing sub-section (2) and inserting two new paragraphs (d) and (e). Paragraph (d) makes it clear that they cannot exercise the rights conferred by this Clause as against existing servitudes, restrictive covenants or statutory prohibitions or restrictions adversely affecting the land, and paragraph (e) provides generally that they shall not use their powers under this Clause to excuse themselves from liability if they do actual damage.

§ Mr. Shinwell
I take it that on this Amendment we are also considering the subsequent Amendments?

§ The Attorney-General
Yes.

§ Mr. Shinwell
That being so, I want to make it clear that we are not satisfied with the position of the Government in respect of paragraph (e), which refers to: Any other act which if this section had not been enacted would be actionable as a trespass or as a nuisance and which, if done, would cause actual damage of a substantial amount. I think there is a fundamental divergence of opinion on the principle. This Clause relates to what are, in fact, wayleaves, the right to operate on ground other than ground which is in itself utilised for coal-producing purposes, but which provides access to the coal which is to be produced. 2110 Generally speaking, no exception can be taken to the Government's proposed Amendment, but if the Attorney-General is right in assuming that we ought not to impede any legitimate action by the Commission in the discharge of their duties it is difficult to understand why he asked the House to accept the proviso in paragraph (e), because here the Commission are to be restricted in respect of certain access. I did not understand in the discussion which took place on the Committee stage that the desire was expressed in any quarter of the Committee in asking the Government to reconsider this matter that they should place further restrictions on the operations of the Commission. I think that a further explanation is required before hon. Members on this side will accept paragraph (e).

§ The Attorney-General
I do not think the hon. Member has paid sufficient regard to the words at the end of the paragraph, and which, if done, would cause actual damage. The main intention of this Clause is to give the. Commission full power to do anything underground as long as they are not causing actual damage. Their rights against certain owners and that kind of thing are dealt with in another part of the Bill. The only purpose of this Clause is to prevent someone who happens to own the surface saying, "I believe the Commission are making a tunnel 2,000 feet below the surface; that is technically in my name, and therefore I am going to the courts to get an injunction to prevent them from doing it." The object of the Clause is to prevent the owner doing that. It was pointed out in the Committee stage that there might be adjoining workings which might be damaged. This Clause restricts the Commission to acts which will not cause actual damage of a substantial amount, but it prevents the Commission being impeded by workings which might technically be regarded as trespass.

§ Mr. Denman
I beg to move, in page 16, line 32, at the end, to insert: (2) Where the owner of any such underground land or the occupiers thereof, or any person who would be the occupier thereof but for the occupation thereof by the Commission or their licensee under this section, desires to carry out in that land any works, but the carrying out thereof is prevented or interfered with by any works or occupation of the Commission or its licensee under this section, the Commission shall be liable to pay to the owner or occupier compensation for that prevention or interference. The point raised by this proposed Subsection is a small one. Clause 14 gives the Commission powers to grant liences to do underground workings in certain circumstances, but it makes no provision for cases in which the Commission declined to grant a licence. It is possible that the owner might wish to mine other minerals in a place where there is a coal mine, and in that case it is surely reasonable that he should have a right to obtain a licence. This Sub-section provides that if such a case is refused he shall have the right to compensation.

Major Hills
I beg to second the Amendment.

§ The Attorney-General
I think that my hon. Friend has misunderstood the effect of the Clause. The intention of it is to give the Commission power either themselves or by their licensee to go under-ground in circumstances in which their activities will not damage anybody else. It does not impede anybody else going underground on his own land by himself or by his licensee to make any investigation which he likes with regard to other minerals which he may desire to work. Therefore, if my hon. Friend thinks that this Clause might prevent somebody else going on his own land he is under a misapprehension. We have inserted words to make it clear that under this Clause the Commission can act only as long as they do not do any damage to anybody, but the Clause prevents them from being impeded by some technical 2112 action for trespass. If the adjoining landowner has other minerals or rights in connection with the surface which the Commission's borings would damage, then they cannot do it under this Clause. We have made it clear that this Clause is solely concerned with enabling them to go about underground provided they are not impeding or damaging other people's supply of coal.

§ Mr. Denman
With that explanation, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.