HC Deb 04 July 1938 vol 338 cc6-11
3. Mr. Henderson Stewart

asked the Prime Minister whether representations have been made to the Burgos government with the object of preventing the bombing of open cities in terms as stern as those employed in the recent protest to the republican government of Spain on the same subject; and what were the terms of those representations?

8. Mr. Cocks

asked the Prime Minister whether the Government have made representations to the Spanish Government to dissuade them from bombing, by way of reprisal, the Italian air base at Majorca or Italian ships unloading munitions in Spanish insurgent ports?

11. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister in what terms he replied to the communication as to the Spanish Government adopting a policy of reprisals in regard to air attacks upon the civilian population and non-military objectives?

Mr. Butler

His Majesty's Government have made no formal representations to the Spanish Government on the subject of reprisals for air attacks, but they have represented to the Burgos authorities the horror with which they view the loss of civilian lives resulting from the bombardment of towns in Spanish Government territory, and they have in the past appealed to both sides to abstain from the destruction of objectives of a non-military character.

Brigadier-General Sir Henry Croft

Is it not a fact that there have been several reprisal raids against Majorca, and that a great number of civilian casualties have been suffered?

Mr. Butler

I have not that information.

Sir Archibald Sinclair

Will His Majesty's Government's objection apply to reprisals against military aerodromes in Majorca?

Mr. Butler

I must refer the right hon. Gentleman to my original reply. I cannot accept the premises on which he bases his supplementary question.

Mr. Cocks

Do I understand that the Government made no representations to the Spanish Government to refrain from bombing Italian aerodromes in Majorca?

Mr. Butler

The Government have made no formal representations. They have made their view perfectly clear on this subject to both sides.

4. Mr. J. J. Davidson

asked the Prime Minister whether the steamer "Baron Forbes," sent from Glasgow on 25th June by the "Friends of National Spain," containing goods for General Franco, had a non-intervention observer on board; and can he indicate of what the cargo consisted?

Mr. Butler

This vessel duly took a non-intervention observer on board at Lisbon on 3rd July. I understand that the cargo consists of medical stores.

Mr. Davidson

In view of the fact that certain statements and allegations have been made in reliable quarters that this vessel also had a cargo of iron plates, will the hon. Gentleman make further investigations?

Mr. Butler

I can do no more than say that the vessel had a non-intervention observer on board, thus safeguarding the point which the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

22. Miss Rathbone

asked the Prime Minister whether he can assure the House that His Majesty's Government have exerted their influence with the Portuguese Government to prevent the passage to Spain of munitions and combatants over the Portuguese frontier; and whether he is satisfied that the Portuguese Government are, in fact, maintaining an effective control?

Mr. Butler

During the period when the British observers in Portugal were stationed on the Spanish frontier, they received every assistance from the Portuguese officials in carrying out their duties, and the reports received from the administrator of the observers showed that effective control of the frontier was being maintained by the Portuguese authorities. The observers were withdrawn from the frontier on 25th June, 1937, in consequence of the decision of the French Government to withdraw facilities from the international observers on the Franco-Spanish frontier. Since that date His Majesty's Government have received no evidence to show that effective control is not being maintained, and they have not felt called upon to make any communication on the subject to the Portuguese Government.

Miss Rathbone

May I know why it has been thought necessary to make strong representations to the French Government to keep the frontier closed and to make no corresponding representations to the Portuguese Government?

Mr. Butler

As I have told the hon. Lady before, I cannot accept her statement as a true picture of the position.

Mr. Lloyd George

This is really rather important. There is no doubt at all, I understand—and I ask the hon. Gentleman—that representations were made by the British Government to the French Government as to the desirability of closing the French frontier. Have the same representations been made to the Portuguese Government with regard to their frontier?

Mr. Butler

We must take it, and we have reason to believe that the Portuguese exercise effective control on their land frontier. With regard to our relations with the French Government, no formal representation or request was made by His Majesty's Government.

Mr. Lloyd George

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he has any definite impartial information that the Portuguese are not allowing munitions to pass their frontier? His Majesty's Government have evidently had some information about the French frontier. What steps have they taken to ascertain that no munitions are passing across the Portuguese frontier? Have they taken any steps to make inquiries?

Mr. Butler

I have given that information already to the House; it is that we have no evidence that there is not effective control, and that the Portuguese are not carrying out their duties in this respect.

Sir A. Sinclair

On what is that opinion based? Have the Government made inquiries?

Mr. Butler

That opinion is based on the information in our possession.

Sir Nairne Stewart Sandeman

Has not Franco any number of ports without going through Portugal?

Mr. Noel-Baker

Has the hon. Gentleman had reports from Portugal that nothing is passing the frontier?

Mr. Butler

I have already told the House that I can only give the information at our disposal. I have given the information, which is that there is no evidence to show that effective control is not being maintained.

Mr. Attlee

Why is it necessary always to have affirmative evidence with regard to a frontier which is on the side of the Spanish Government, while a mere negative reply is always enough for Franco's frontier?

Mr. Butler

The right hon. Gentleman need not try to attribute any partiality to our side. We have adopted the policy of non-intervention, and, in spite of all the difficulties. we have adhered to it.

Mr. Attlee

Why should the hon. Gentleman assume that this is a matter of partiality unless there is another explanation?

Mr. Benn

Are we to gather from the Under-Secretary's answer that no representations were made to the French, or is he slipping out on the word "Formal"?

Hon. Members

Answer.

Miss Wilkinson

On a point of Order. May I put it to you, Sir, that on a matter of this importance, when a Minister has given an answer which is obviously intended to be misleading——

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady must not impute motives.

Miss Wilkinson

May I re-phrase my question? [HON. MEMBERS: "No! and" "Withdraw!"] I have no desire to impute motives. I wish only to ask you whether, an answer having been given which, unfortunately, may be read in two ways, when a Front Bench Member asks for a clarification, so that we might know what the Minister did mean, it is really fair for the Minister to make no answer whatever?

Mr. Speaker

The Minister has given about six or seven answers already.

Miss Rathbone

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

23. Miss Rathbone

asked the Prime Minister whether he has consulted authorities upon international law as to the relative position of British subjects engaged in ambulance work in Spain and of those engaged on British ships doing legitimate trade in Spanish territorial waters?

Mr. Butler

The analogy lies rather in the nature of service rendered by these classes of persons than in their respective positions under international law.

Mr. Gallacher

In view of the statement made by the Minister the other night, are we to understand that British ambulance men going to work in Spain can be murdered with impunity by any of the brigands on the other side?

Miss Rathbone

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that several international experts have expressed strong disagreement with the statement of the Prime Minister that there is no difference between the two cases?

Mr. Butler

Then perhaps they will study the reply which I have given to-day.

24. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister what reply has been returned to the note of the Spanish Government asking that an international commission should visit forthwith Spanish towns which have been subjected to aerial raids?

Mr. Butler

The Spanish Government have been informed that His Majesty's Government are making every endeavour to arrange for the formation of a commission to proceed to France at an early date. Consultations are still being carried on with a number of Governments, and I regret that I am not, therefore, in a position to make any further statement at this stage.

Sir H. Croft

Will such a commission also visit other Spanish towns where there are allegations of massacres of civilians, and will the hon. Gentleman accept it from me——

Mr. Speaker

The question asks only whether there has been a reply.

Sir H. Croft

May I not ask whether the commission might not be extended?

Mr. Speaker

Not on this question.

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

May we hope for the dispatch of this commission at an early date?

Mr. Butler

That depends upon the answers of several Governments, but I sincerely hope so.

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

Is the matter being pressed?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir.