HC Deb 14 April 1938 vol 334 cc1291-7
25. Mr. Mabane

asked the Home Secretary whether any special air-raid precautions fire-fighting equipment has yet been distributed to local authorities, and when he anticipates this distribution will be complete?

Mr. Lloyd

Over 150 fire pumps, mostly of the larger and heavier types, have been issued to fire brigades for use in connection with their emergency measures. About 600 more machines of these types have been ordered, together with about 3,000 light trailer pumps. It is hoped that most of these machines will have been delivered by the end of this year. It is not possible to say, at present, how many additional machines may be required.

26. Mr. Mabane

asked the Home Secretary whether any embargo is being placed by his Department on the construction of air-raid shelters until the surveys have been completed and a complete scheme planned and approved?

19. Mr. R. Acland

asked the Home Secretary whether, pending the results of the surveys to be conducted into the need for air-raid shelters by local authorities, he will consider the advisability of initiating work forthwith upon the construction of some shelters in those areas in which it is clear that some shelters will be needed?

Mr. Lloyd

No definite practice of the kind mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr. Mabane) has been laid down. I think, however, that as indicated in the circular of 28th March it is to be preferred that surveys should be carried out before the question of special construction is considered.

Mr. Mabane

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that where new buildings are being erected in particular areas, his Department will raise no objection to air-raid shelters being included if the expenditure is not excessive, and will such expenditure be eligible for grant?

Mr. Lloyd

It will depend upon whether they fit in with the scheme of the local authority in the light of their survey.

27. Mr. Mabane

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that delay in making provision for travelling expenses of air-raid precautions volunteers is being excused by local authorities on the ground that Home Office approval is still being awaited; whether there is any justification for this excuse; and whether an immediate instruction will be sent to all local authorities to make the necessary provision forthwith?

Mr. Lloyd

My right hon. Friend does not consider that any general instruction is necessary, but if my hon. Friend has any particular case in mind and will let me know, I will make inquiries.

29. Sir John Mellor

asked the Home Secretary when it is proposed to issue the householder's handbook generally to all householders?

Mr. Lloyd

As stated in the answer given on 3rd February to a question by the hon. Member for North Islington (Dr. Guest), the present distribution of the book to local authorities was made in order to decide in what form printed advice to each householder could most effectively be given and how and when it should be distributed. The copies asked for by local authorities, totalling some 700,000 in all, were in the main distributed last month. My right hon. Friend does not think the time has yet come when he can properly invite them to let him have their considered views. Meanwhile the book is available for air-raid wardens and others to use in giving advice to householders and the general public.

30. Sir J. Mellor

asked the Home Secretary when it is proposed to issue the structural handbook relating to air-raid precautions?

38. Mr. Maxwell

asked the Home Secretary how soon it is proposed to issue, as promised, notes indicating the standards of construction which are regarded as desirable from the point of view of air-raid protection; and whether he is satisfied that this will be sufficient without legislation to enforce their observance?

Mr. Lloyd

Guidance on structural measures will be issued in the near future, though I am not in a position at the moment to give a precise date. I am glad to say that the leading architectural and engineering bodies are prepared to collaborate in disseminating technical advice on this matter, and it would be premature at this stage to express any definite opinion on the need for legislation.

Sir Arnold Wilson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that unofficially these expert bodies have for the past 12 months been advising their own people on these questions, and that matters are technically well in hand as between the technical authorities and their advisers?

Mr. Lloyd

Yes, I think that these bodies have been doing very valuable work indeed.

31. Mr. Sandys

asked the Home Secretary what system at present exists for rapidly warning the population of London of the approach of an air raid?

Mr. Lloyd

My right hon. Friend is about to issue a circular to local authorities generally regarding the means of giving public air-raid warnings in towns. Special consideration is being given to the arrangements required in London, in most parts of which special instruments will have to be installed.

Mr. Sandys

Will my hon. Friend answer the question as to the system which at present exists? Surely some system exists at the moment?

Mr. Lloyd

Yes, we have been carrying out experiments to find the best instruments for this purpose. There are a good many technical difficulties, but in an emergency the system of maroon warnings could be applied at short notice.

Mr. Sandys

Do the local authorities and the public know about this system?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not think there would be any difficulty in making such a system known at short notice if necessary.

Mr. Gallacher

If the hon. Gentleman is sending out a circular on the method of warning, will he also send a statement to hon. Members showing the system that will operate for evacuation?

32. Colonel Sandeman Allen

asked the Home Secretary by what method it is proposed that air-raid wardens should communicate to the appropriate authorities regarding the bombs which may have fallen or casualties which may have occurred in the streets for which they are responsible and, if by telephone, whether a system of priority calls has been arranged?

Mr. Lloyd

It is proposed that air-raid wardens should make their reports by telephone where possible. For this purpose a system of priority calls should not be necessary, seeing that in most cases the call would be simply by the warden's line to the exchange and from the exchange to the report centre by direct line, without the use of junction lines between exchanges. The warden would control the availability of the line from him to the exchange and it is intended that report centres should have sufficient lines to carry the probable number of incoming calls. I would also point out that where there is automatic telephone working no system of priority calls is possible. As air raids would in any case impose a heavy burden on the telephone system, it will have to be an instruction to the public to avoid using the telephone during and immediately after a raid for any but vitally urgent calls.

Mr. Sandys

Are the Telephone lines being laid yet?

Mr. Lloyd

Yes, we are carrying out extensive experiments in some of the air-raid precautions exercises to test the actual working of the scheme.

Mr. Wise

Are all these lines laid underground?

Mr. Lloyd

Some of them are.

Mr. Ammon

Is it not a fact that there is no effective air-raid precautions organisation and that the local authorities are continually going backwards and forwards but get no proper information from the Home Office?

Mr. Lloyd

That is quite untrue. The organisation of air-raid precautions is making great progress all over the country.

Mr. Ammon

Is it not a fact that the book which the Home Office has issued has most of the pages blank, indicating that later information will be supplied?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not understand what the hon. Gentleman means when he refers to a book, because the Home Office has been issuing a series of elaborate and technical instructions.

33. Mr. Bull

asked the Home Secretary in what manner the services of doctors are being enlisted for duty in connection with air raids; and whether those who have offered their services for this work have been allocated to specific districts?

Mr. Lloyd

Doctors will be required in connection with air-raid precautions primarily for supplementing hospital staffs, and my right hon. Friend is in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health on the whole question of hospital provision. In the meantime the scheme for the training of doctors in anti-gas measures is proceeding steadily.

34. Mr. Craven-Ellis

asked the Home Secretary whether the contemplated survey of air-raid shelter accommodation is to include accommodation in private houses for the use of their occupants; and whether it is intended that local authorities shall provide special shelters for all those for whom existing shelters are not available?

Mr. Lloyd

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the hon. Member for Norwood (Mr. Sandys) on 7th April.

35. Colonel Sandeman Allen

asked the Home Secretary whether he notified the local authorities of his intention to make a broadcast appeal for air-raid volunteers on 14th March, and, if so, when?

Mr. Lloyd

My right hon. Friend's intention was published in the Press in advance of the broadcast, but no formal communication was made to the local authorities.

36. Mr. Sandys

asked the Home Secretary how many local authorities have completed schemes for the evacuation in case of war of school children from dangerous to less dangerous areas, in accordance with paragraph 6 of the Board of Education's Circular 1461; and which authorities have been informed by the Home Office that their area is ranked as dangerous?

Mr. Lloyd

The question of the most appropriate means of providing protection for school children, whether by evacuation or by other means, is being closely examined in the light of local circumstances by all those concerned. Advice is being made available by the Department as required in order that proper decisions may be taken.

Mr. Sandys

Is it not a fact that in this circular local authorities have been told that in dangerous areas they will have to prepare schemes, and how are the local authorities to know which areas are to be regarded as dangerous?

Mr. Lloyd

The whole question of evacuation is now being considered by my right hon. Friend.

Mr. Sandys

Does that mean that this circular will have no effect until another circular comes out explaining it?

Mr. Lloyd

I think that, while certain plans can be made by local authorities, my hon. Friend is right in thinking that no definite steps can be taken until my right hon. Friend has considered the matter.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Do we understand that no areas have been warned that they may be dangerous areas?

37. Mr. Sandys

asked the Home Secretary whether it is proposed to send a proportion of hospital patients from the more vulnerable areas to other parts of the country; and, if so, what arrangements have been made in the case of London?

Mr. Lloyd

This is one of the matters in connection with hospitals generally about which my right hon. Friend is in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

Mr. Sandys

Have no arrangements yet been made in London?

Mr. Lloyd

I informed the House yesterday that we hope the survey of London will be completed in the next few weeks.

Mr. Sandys

But no definite arrangements have yet been made?

Mr. J. Griffiths

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that hospital accommodation in provincial towns is already overtaxed, and that if anything is to be done in this matter serious attention should be given to that fact?

48. Sir J. Mellor

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Sheffield Corporation Rating Committee, in reply to a question by property owners, has intimated that any shelters for air-raid protection would automatically increase the value of the property; and whether he proposes to take any steps to prevent assessments being increased in respect of the construction of shelters?

The Minister of Health (Sir Kingsley Wood)

I am making inquiries as to the case mentioned.