HC Deb 12 April 1938 vol 334 cc987-1003

For the purpose of obtaining information relating to the standard rent or rateable value, or other information required, for the purposes of the principal Acts, the Act of 1933 and this Act, the landlord or tenant of any dwelling-house or his duly authorised agent shall, notwithstanding any enactment to the contrary, be entitled at all reasonable times and without payment of any fee to inspect and make copies of or extracts from any valuation lists, returns, or other documents relating to rating in the possession or under the control of the rating authority.—[Mr. Silverman.]

Brought up, and read the First time. 6.1 p.m.

Mr. Silverman

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

This again is one of those short, non-controversial Clauses that I move with ever diminishing optimism. I do not wish to be discourteous, but I must say that I find the much vaunted sympathy of the right hon. Gentleman just a little wooden; at any rate, not much comes out of it, but I am not without hope that perhaps in this instance something may be done. What we are asking for here is that where a local authority has documents and information relevant to the determination of any question in dispute between the tenant and the landlord of controlled premises, either the landlord or the tenant or the duly accredited agent of either shall have the right to go to that local authority and have produced to him the documents and the papers without payment of any fee. I am quite aware that a great many local authorities, or at any rate some of them, do that already, and I think it will not be denied that a good many local authorities do not. Even if there were more authorities that did it than did not, it would still be worth while to pass this Clause, which would, on that assumption, be merely declaratory of the prevailing practice. If there be a great number of instances—and I think there are a great many—where local authorities do not produce documents, then I think the House will feel that it is high time that there was legislation to compel them to do so.

The existing situation works no hardship to the landlord, because there is a statutory right to inspect the valuation lists on payment of a proper fee, which is not likely to worry the landlord. If he needs the information, he will pay his fee and get it, but you are dealing, in the case of tenants, with a mass of very poor people indeed, to whom the expense of another shilling or hall-crown is a matter of very serious import. There can be no doubt that a good deal of hardship and difficulty would be removed at very small cost if this Clause were accepted, and it is difficult to see what harm could be done by it. Even the landlord gets the benefit out of it. It is quite impartial. We have suggested that the facilities should he equally available and equally free to both landlord and tenant, and in all the circumstances my optimism remains. I still hope to see a Clause of this kind accepted, but if I am wrong, I shall be greatly interested to hear on what conceivable ground this eminently reasonable proposal can be opposed.

6.5 p.m.

Mr. J. J. Davidson

I beg to second the Motion.

I think my hon. Friend covered most of the ground with regard to this Clause, and I am hopeful that the Government will accept it. To me, it would seem rather strange that as things are to-day with regard to our housing problem, our rating problem, and our rent problem, this small concession should be denied to people who undoubtedly in the future will desire this information. I have heard hon. and right hon. Members on all sides of the House refer to the various intricacies of our rating system and our housing problem. On the Committee stage I think it was generally agreed that to understand the intricacies of the various Housing Acts, one would need to be a lawyer, an expert politician, and a medical officer of health combined, and even with that training it would still be very difficult.

Right throughout the country, in many cities, we have tenants' associations, which take up these difficulties of the average tenant, who cannot he expected to understand the Housing Acts or our rating system, and they undertake to approach various people and to state the tenants' case wherever that may be necessary. All that we are asking is that tenants or their representatives, along with any other interests—and we are giving an equal share to all interested parties—should have access to this information. Personally, I would still like to see the landlord made to pay a certain fee for this information, but we cannot deal with personal feelings here, and therefore we put forward the perfectly fair proposal that all sections who are interested in our housing problem should have access to this very necessary information in the event of any dispute arising. I trust that the right hon. Gentleman will see his way to accept the Clause and at least make it clear to the tenants that even on these niggardly points the Government do not always oppose them.

6.8 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Mr. Bernays)

With one part of this new Clause I can say at the outset that I have the utmost sympathy. I, of course, agree that where the local authority has information relevant to the landlords' and tenants' interests, landlords and tenants must have access to that information, and they have a statutory right to it. The hon. Gentleman probably knows that in Section 60 of the Rating and Valuation Act, 1925, it is laid down that any ratepayer may at all reasonable times inspect and take copies or extracts of any rate book, valuation list, notice of objection, etc., whether in his own rating area or in some other rating area. He can do this without payment in the case of documents which are not more than 10 years old, but in the case of documents more than 10 years old he has to pay a fee, I think, of 2s. 6d. in the provinces and 1s. in London. This Clause merely proposes, in effect, that this fee of 1s. or 2s. 6d. shall be waived when the object is an inspection connected with the Rent Acts. But if this fee is waived for one object, why should it not be waived for all objects? In the majority of cases it would be the landlord who would require to inspect these documents for his own purposes, and why should a landlord go on the rates? Why should he not pay a proper fee?

Mr. Silverman

Would the hon. Member accept the Clause without the landlords being included?

Mr. Bernays

The fee is, of course, to recompense the local authorities for the extra time and trouble caused to their staff in getting out these old records. There seems to be no reason why a local authority should be denied some recompense for the extra work entailed when perhaps it requires an inspection of records of something like a quarter of a century old. If this new Clause were accepted, it could be justified only on the basis that it is wrong to charge any fee for the inspection of any public documents of any kind. That is a position that I am sure the hon. Member, on reflection, would not wish to take up. I hope, therefore, that after this explanation he will not think it necessary to press his new Clause to a Division.

6.11 p.m.

Mr. Johnston

I am sorry that the Government cannot meet us on a simple point like this. We have been very reasonable over this Bill, as the Minister has admitted. Here we are asking that when a tenant or a landlord goes to a local authority and for a public purpose, to enable a Statute passed by this House to function properly—and, indeed, without these documents it cannot function properly——

Mr. Bernays

What public purpose would be served?

Mr. Johnston

The fixation of a proper standard of rent, and without the knowledge obtained from these documents that cannot be done. The hon. Gentleman representing the Government says, "It is all right; if it is only nine years old, there will be no fee charged, but if it is 10 years and one month old, there is something wrong about it, and we charge a fee." Why should that be? I could understand the Government taking up this attitude if an inspection of these documents was for a private purpose, or would benefit the applicant or the searcher, but that is not so here. What is required by Statute is that all reasonable facilities shall be provided for fixing a standard rent. The local authorities are in possession of the information, and we ask here that it shall be compulsory upon them to disclose that information, back into 1915 or 1914, as the case may be. The Government say, "We have no objection to that, but if an applicant goes to a local authority and searches back for more than 10 years, we are going to charge him a fee." It is true that a local authority cannot refuse to give facilities for an inspection, but what they are doing here, and very frequently perhaps to very poor people, is making a charge of Is. unnecessarily. This is not a big point compared with the extraordinary robbery that is being committed in the rest of this Bill. We shall have something to say about the extent of that robbery later on, but this is a very small matter; and it is indicative of the Government's attitude to the whole problem that on a small point like this they adopt purely legalistic difficulties and insist upon charging 1s. unnecessarily. I hope my hon. Friend will press this Clause to a Division.

6.15 p.m.

Mr. McLean Watson

I would like to ask the Solicitor-General for Scotland whether he sees any difficulty in the way of a local authority providing the information which is required in this new Clause. Does he think that there is any rating authority in Scotland which cannot produce the valuation roll for 1914? I am not a rating authority, but I can provide the hon. and learned Gentleman with the valuation roll for half the county in which I live. When rent restriction first came into operation I found it necessary to use the 1914 valuation roll frequently. I found that owners of property were charging their tenants more than they were legally entitled to do, and I had to go back over and over again to the 1914 valuation roll to find out what the standard rent was. I have that roll to this day, and I could tell the hon. and learned Gentleman the rate of any house in the western part of Fife on 3rd August, 1914—and I would not charge him anything for it.

I have many times had to provide tenants with particulars of the rents they were paying on that date. What difficulty is there in the way of the local authorities in Scotland providing this information to an owner or to a tenant who is in dispute with an owner? Why should there be the payment of a fee for information of that kind? It is a small point and I am surprised that the Government should take up such a stubborn attitude to it. I could understand the difficulties of local authorities if they had not got the information, but the authorities in Scotland published it long before 1914. They retain the valuation rolls and are able at any time to go back and prepare valuations for any period over a considerable number of years.

6.19 p.m.

The Solicitor-General for Scotland (Mr. James Reid)

I would not like to be too certain, but I think the position is that after six years copies of the valuation rolls are sent to the Register House at Edinburgh for preservation. All researches there entail a small fee. It is true that in most areas the local authorities also keep copies of the valuation rolls, and my understanding is that where a fee is charged it is, generally speaking, charged for giving a written extract of the entry or entries in which the inquirer is interested. I do not think there is much mere inspection. I made some inquiries into this matter and was told that the greater part of the inspections are by landlords who seek for particulars with a view to selling or buying property. That is not surprising because all this inspection for rent restriction purposes has been done long ago, and it is in a very rare case that inspection would be required in future. If we were to alter the law to-day it would only alter it for the benefit of 1 per cent. of the people who are in doubt of their standard rent, the other 99 per cent. having got the information without this provision.

6. 21 p.m.

Mr. Bevan

It is not sufficient to say that this proposal affects only a small number of people and that, therefore, there is no need to make the concession. The reason why we are having no concessions on the Bill is because the House is under a guillotine in regard to it. If you had not put in a Clause in this Bill by a trick you would have had to concede many of the demands of the Opposition. The fact of the matter is that by a piece of improper blackmail——

Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Sir Dennis Herbert)

The things which the hon. Member is asking show how advisable is the rule that Members should address the Chair.

Mr. Bevan

I did not intend to be disrespectful to you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker. We have had from the Solicitor-General for Scotland an answer which says, in effect, that the Government will not accept the new Clause because it affects only a small number of people, and I was making an observation about the attitude of the Government in Committee and to-day, and suggesting that the time has arrived when the House should ask the Government whether they intend to make any concessions at all. The reason we are not having any concessions is that the Government know that we cannot hold up the opposition to this Bill much longer because of the Clause which continues in operation the control of Class C houses. It has been suggested that there is a difficulty in England in this matter and that England is different from Scotland. To arrive at the standard rent in England you have to know what the rates were in 1914, because in most of the areas before the houses affected came under the Rent Restrictions Acts the rates were paid to the landlord and were included in the gross rent.

To get the standard rent in 1914 you had to go to the local authority to see what the rates were in that year. By a deduction of the rates that were paid from the gross rent you arrived at the net rent and added the 40 per cent. allowed under the Acts. It is wrong to say that it is the landlord who is usually affected. It is the tenant almost invariably. I have been to local authorities on countless occasions on behalf of tenants to find out what the rates were. That is still necessary in many parts of the country, and why should poor people who are contesting the right of a landlord to charge more rent be subjected to an unnecessary fee? It is for them a big matter, although it is to us a small matter. I must say that the Government are showing the most stupid obduracy in holding out against every reasonable Amendment which is being moved from this side. Were it not for a most improper piece of Parliamentary blackmail used against us, the Government would not have this Bill as easily as they are having it.

6.25 p.m.

Mr. H. G. Williams

The hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan) is getting very excited about not very much. Administratively the inspection of old records involves a certain amount of expense to the local authorities, and there is, therefore, a case for having sometime limit after which a charge should be made for an inspection. Hon. Members opposite are not always so solicitous about people who are not very well off. I cannot go and find out the date of my birth without having to pay a fee, and if I want a certificated copy I have to pay a further fee. Only the other day hon. Members opposite were proposing that any man joining the Army should be put to this expense. The number of cases of that kind would be substantially greater than the number for whom their hearts are bleeding at this moment.

6.26 p.m.

Mr. Tomlinson

We cannot abolish that in this Bill. What we are asking for now is something that can be done in this Bill. Everybody who has had experience of these matters knows that it is poor people in the main who are anxious to have the information. The hon. Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) says that inspection would involve the local authority in some research work. Since when has it not been the duty of a local authority to provide service to the people after whom it is looking? I know local authorities which will go to any amount of trouble in this direction because they look upon it as their duty to serve the people.

Mr. H. G. Williams

They will still be free to do that.

Mr. Tomlinson

I am not asking that they should be still free to do it. I am asking that what many people look upon as an elementary right for every citizen in a district should be the elementary right of every citizen in the country.

6.27 p.m.

Mr. Ede

The hon. Member for Streatham (Sir W. Lane Mitchell) seems rather amused that we should desire to continue this discussion. I hope that the large number of small tenants in Streatham who have had occasion to consult me on these particular points, owing to the unsatisfactory nature of their representation, will take note of the attitude adopted by the hon. Member. The Parliamentary Secretary over-stated the problem so far as it relates to England. I have never professed to understand the rating system of Scotland. I believe that you have to be brought up on the shorter and longer Catechisms before you can get the most elementary acquaintance with the rating system of Scotland. I have, however, had some experience of the rating system of England, and I know that the only documents tenants require to inspect for this purpose are the rate book for the half-year in which the War broke out and the rate book for the current half-year. No great amount of search is involved by the local authority, because they know which of the rate books the tenant will want to see. That rate book is kept easily accessible and can be produced at once.

It seems anomalous that in certain areas the local authorities regard this, if not as their statutory duty, at least as a social duty that is imposed on them. The only calculation that is required is to ascertain the amount of rates actually paid for the half-year, divide it by 26, and deduct it from the rent. That is the figure which is required. There are a large number of small people who wish to ascertain whether they have been fairly treated, because it has been my experience with regard to controlled tenants that when the rates have gone up the landlord has always known of the rise and made the necessary adjustments to the rent, but that on those occasions when the rates have gone down——

Mr. Macquisten

They never go down.

Mr. Ede

On those occasions—and in those districts outside Scotland—when rates have gone down, the landlord has never apparently heard of it. Cases have been brought to my notice where tenants have been overcharged for a considerable period, and before they can get the matter put right they have to ascertain what the rates were in 1914 and what was the standard rent. I sincerely hope that on so small a matter the Minister of Health may be able to meet us. I do not think it is right that poor people should be charged for the production of a book which is in constant use. because it imposes no real expense upon the local authorities.

Mr. Johnston

By leave of the House may I draw the attention of the Government to a statement made in the Marley Committee's report? In paragraph 109, on page 51, they state: It has been brought to our notice that every year the question of determining the standard rent of a controlled house becomes more difficult, because the necessary records relating to 1914 are often not available. That statement is the justification for this Clause.

Mr. H. G. Williams

On a point of Order. If this Clause is carried a charge which does not now exist will be imposed upon local authorities, because they will have to incur expenditure which at the moment they do not incur. Therefore, a charge will be created and I would ask whether it is in order to move a Clause which may impose a charge upon a local authority.

Mr. Speaker

I understand that this Clause is concerned with something in the nature of a fee for services rendered.

Mr. H. G. Williams

The proposal is to remit a fee. By the remission of the fee the burden falling upon the local authority will be increased, and the net effect ultimately will be that to a fractional extent the rates will be increased. [Interruption.] It does not matter how small a fraction it is, the principle applies, because it imposes a charge upon the ratepayers.

Mr. Speaker

In similar cases it has not been held to be a charge upon the public.

6.34 p.m.

Mr. G. Griffiths

I am amazed at the point of Order put forward by the hon. Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams). What we are asking for in this new Clause has been done by many local authorities since 1915. Scores and scores of tenants and landlords went to the rating office immediately the first Rent Restrictions Act came into operation in order to ascertain the standard rent, and they go to this day. Only the other week a tenant came to my house wanting to know whether he was being charged a proper rent so far as the Rent Restrictions Acts were concerned. I sent him to the rating officer, who showed him the books which gave him the answer. All we are asking the Government to do is to say that every authority must give to a tenant or to a landlord the information they require on this matter without any charge. The Parliamentary Secretary started by saying that he had a lot of sympathy with the suggestion.

Mr. Bernays

I said that, of course, I had sympathy with the idea that these documents should be available to those who want them, but it was only with that idea that I expressed sympathy, and I said that point was already covered.

Mr. Griffiths

The Parliamentary Secretary started off with sympathy, just as the Minister for Health started by expressing sympathy for the proposal of the hon. Member for Don Valley (Mr. T. Williams). I hope that the Minister, now that he has come in, will see the rightness and the justice of the application we make and will say, "Yes, I can see the light and we will accept the Clause."

6.36 p.m.

Mr. David Adams

I desire to support the Clause on the same grounds as the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Mr. G. Griffiths) namely, that the practice of giving this information without charge has been followed by the Corporation of which I am a member. Any other course would be short-sighted and somewhat ludicrous, particularly when one remembers that no fee is charged to persons seeking health information or information relating to education, air-raid precautions, town-planning changes, the production of plans relating to the diversion of drains, and important and intricate questions of finance. The local authority in Newcastle has not at any time, so far as my information goes—and I have been a member for many years—thought fit to make a charge for any of those services, which are infinitely more intricate than what is asked for here. All that is required is a sight of the rate book for 1914, and surely that will not necessitate an increase in staff or entail additional expenditure. We are very anxious, as the Government profess to be, to give tenants the facility for getting information to guard themselves against being overcharged—and to prevent in some cases their being undercharged. We want to put the tenant upon an equality with the landlord. It is idle to say that these poor people can easily pay the shilling which might be the charge. It is true that our Corporation do charge Is. for a sight of any of the minutes of the Corporation, but that is the only case in which any charge is made. If we are to protect the poor tenants we ought to pass this Clause.

6.40 p.m.

Mr. Macquisten

In some places they charge 2s. 6d. for this information, and in London 1s. 6d. or is. Anyone can go to the Register of Joint Stock Companies at Somerset House and spend a whole day going over a register of shares—having the book brought down—for is. It does not seem to me that there is any justification for charging a fee in this case. It is not difficult for landlords to get the information, because they or their agents keep books, but the tenant has not got the information, and it is only an elementary and ordinary act of courtesy that he should be supplied with it. If one goes into a post office and asks to look up an address in the telephone book the post office does not charge a fee. Many people ring up on the telephone to ask the time, and the exchanges give the time without always troubling to put the subscriber through to the time-clock. I am told that at some places they were besieged with inquiries when Summer Time came in. It is unfortunate that it should be necessary to have to move a Clause like this—I think it is a little wider than is necessary and might be limited—and it seems a monstrous thing that we should have to have a discussion about something which all local authorities ought to do as a matter of course.

6.42 p.m.

Mr. J. Griffiths

For the reason put forward by the hon. and learned Member for Argyll (Mr. Macquisten) I do not think we ought to close this discussion without pressing the Minister to meet us. I remember that during the passage of another Bill recently the hon. Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) spoke once or twice in favour of local authorities being put in a position to obtain certain information. On the Coal Bill the point was raised that local authorities should have the right to search much more complicated documents than a rate book. Those who had been asked to speak for them said that when they were planning the future of their areas they ought to have the right to look up the plans of old mining developments and prospective developments as a right, and without fee, and that concession was made to them by the President of the Board of Trade. I believe the hon. Member for South Croydon supported it. He

was not in any way averse to pushing responsibilities and charges upon the Coal Commission, although the more expenses the Coal Commission have to meet the less chance there is of the poor miner getting any more money. He was not concerned then about the poor miner being deprived of "a bob" because of expenses being charged upon the Commission. Now he is concerned about the rates.

Surely the Minister of Health knows that there are local authorities which give this information as a service, and must have recognised that they have a perfect right to do so, otherwise the auditors would have been busy. It is a primary duty of a local authority to look after the interests of its people, and first of all the interests of the poorest of the people, who are often exploited, and to whom Is. as a search fee would be an enormous sum. For those reasons I do not think we ought to divide without pressing the Minister to give way. Surely this is a matter on which he can make a concession.

Mr. H. G. Williams

Perhaps I may be allowed to correct a mistake——

Mr. Speakerrose

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 148; Noes, 199.

Division No. 176. AYES. 6.44 p.m.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Daggar, G. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)
Adams, D. (Consett) Dalton, H. Henderson, J. (Ardwick)
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Henderson, T. (Tradeston)
Adamson, W. M. Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Hicks, E. G.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Dunn, E. (Rather Valley) Hills, A. (Pontefract)
Ammon, C. G. Ede, J. C. Holdsworth, H.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Hollins, A.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Hopkin, D.
Banheld, J. W. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Jagger, J.
Barnes, A. J. Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)
Barr, J. Foot, D. M. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T.
Bellenger F. J. Frankel, D. Jones, A. C. (Shipley)
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. Gardner, B. W. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)
Benson G. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Kelly, W. T.
Bevan, A. Gibson, R. (Greenock) Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.
Broad, F. A. Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Kirby, B. V.
Bromfield, W. Green, W. H. (Deptford) Lathan, G.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Lawton, J. J.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Grenfell, D. R. Leach, W.
Buchanan, G. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Lee, F.
Burke, W. A. Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Leslie, J. R.
Butcher, H. W. Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Logan, D. G.
Cape, T. Groves, T. E. Lunn, W.
Cartland, J. R. H. Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.) Macdonald, G. (Ince)
Cassells, T. Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) McEntee, V. La T.
Chater, D. Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) MacLaren, A.
Cluse, W. S. Hardie, Agnes Maclean, N.
Cocks, F. S. Harris, Sir P. A. Macquisten, F. A.
Cove, W. G. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) Mainwaring, W H.
Cripps, Hen. Sir Stafford Hayday, A. Mathers, G.
Maxton, J. Ritson, J. Tinker, J. J.
Messer, F. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.) Tomlinson, G.
Milner, Major J. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) Viant, S. P.
Montague, F. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens) Walker, J.
Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Salt, E. W. Watkins, F. C.
Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey) Watson, W. McL.
Muff, G. Seely, Sir H. M. Westwood, J.
Naylor, T. E. Sexton, T. M. White, H. Graham
Noel-Baker, P. J. Silverman, S. S. Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
Oliver, G. H. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Wilkinson, Ellen
Paling, W. Smith, E. (Stoke) Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
Parker, J. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Leas- (K'ly) Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Parkinson, J. A. Smith, T. (Normanton) Wilson, C. H. (Atteraliffe)
Pearson, A. Sorenson, R. W. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) Withers, Sir J. J.
Price, M. P. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Pritt, D. N. Summerskill, Edith Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C
Quibell, D. J. K. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Ridley, G. Thorne, W.
Riley, B. Thurtle, E. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Mr. Charleton and Mr. John.
Acland Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)
Adams, S. V. T. (Loeds, W.) Everard, W. L. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Albery, Sir Irving Findlay, Sir E. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Fleming, E. L. Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)
Apsley, Lord Fox, Sir G. W. G. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry
Assheton, R. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)
Astor, Major Hon. J. J. (Dover) Furness, S. N. Munro, P.
Balfour, G. (Hampstead) Fyfe, D. P. M. Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.
Barrie, Sir C. C. Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley) Nicholson, G. (Farnham)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P, H. Gluckstein, L. H. Nicolson, Hon. H. G.
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Gower, Sir R. V. O'Connor, Sir Terenee J.
Bernays, R. H. Gridley, Sir A. B. O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh
Blair, Sir R. Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Boulton, W. W. Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W. Palmer, G. E. H.
Boyce, H. Leslie Hannah, I. C. Patrick, C. M.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Peake, O.
Broadbridge, Sir G. T. Harbord, A. Peat, C. U.
Brocklebank, Sir Edmund Harvey, Sir G. Petherick, M.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Bull, B. B. Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Pilkington, R.
Bullock, Capt. M. Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Ponsonby, Col C. E.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. Procter, Major H. A.
Carver, Major W. H. Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan. Radford, E. A.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Hepworth, J. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Channon, H, Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Ramsden, Sir E.
Clarke, Frank (Dartford) Holmes, J. S. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Hopkinson, A. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Colville, Lt. Col. Rt. Hon. D. J. Howitt, Dr. A. B. Richards, G. W (Skipton)
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk N.) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Haek., N.) Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Hunter, T. Ropner, Colonel L.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Hurd, Sir P. A. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Cox, H. B. Trevor Hutchinson, G. C. Rowlands, G.
Craven-Ellis, W. Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M, R.
Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Crookshank. Capt. H. F. C. Joel, D. J. B. Russell, Sir Alexander
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Cross, R. H. Keeling, E. H. Salmon, Sir I.
Crowder, J. F. E. Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Samuel, M. R. A.
Cruddas. Col. B. Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) Sandys, E. D.
Culverwell, C. T. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Scott, Lord William
Davies. C. (Montgomery) Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Liddall, W. S. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
De Chair, S. S. Little, Sir E. Graham- Shepperson, Sir E. W.
De la Bère, R. Lloyd, G. W. Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.
Denman, Hon. R. D. Looker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Danville, Alfred Loftus, P. C. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Doland, G. F. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crews)
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Spens, W. P.
Dugdale, Captain T. L. McCorquodale, M. S. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Duggan H. J. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross) Storey, S.
Duncan, J. A. L. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Eckersley, P. T McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Edmondson, Major Sir J. McKie, J. H. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Magnay, T. Tasker, Sir R. I.
Elliston, Capt. G. S. Maitland, A. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Emery, J. F. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Entwistle, Sir C. F. Markham, S. F. Touche, G. C.
Errington, E. Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) Wells, S. R. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend) Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham) Wragg, H.
Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Warrender, Sir V. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Waterhouse, Captain C. Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount Lieut.-Colonel Kerr and Mr.
Wayland, Sir W. A. Womersley, Sir W. J. Grimston.
Wedderburn, H. J. S. Wood, Hen. C. I. C.