SPAIN.

HC Deb 11 April 1938 vol 334 cc733-9

5. Mr. Arthur Henderson

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the Spanish insurgent authorities are continuing to bomb open towns and villages on the east coast of Spain, resulting in the killing of large numbers of the civilian population, His Majesty's Government will consider withdrawing Sir Robert Hodgson, their special agent to the Spanish insurgent authorites, as a protest against such methods of warfare?

The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler)

The House has been informed of the steps which His Majesty's Government have taken in the hope of preventing further bombardments of civilian areas in Spain. They do not consider that this aim would be furthered by Sir Robert Hodgson's withdrawal.

Mr. Henderson

Is the Under-Secretary aware that the steps the Government have taken have been completely unsuccessful, and will not the Government take further action to bring home to General Franco that they will not tolerate this kind of thing?

Mr. Butler

I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's statement. He will remember that Barcelona has not been bombed since the representations.

Brigadier-General Sir Henry Croft

Is it not a fact that only last week many civilians were killed on the other side; and will a protest go to both sides?

Mr. Noel-Baker

Is it not a fact that many other towns and villages have been bombed continuously since the protest was made, and is not the total population affected much larger that that of Barcelona?

Mr. Butler

We have had, I regret to say, reports to that effect.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Will not the Government take some action?

6. Miss Rathbone

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that Italian air pilots and war material have been arriving in Spain during the past three weeks, and that the details as to numbers, route, and place of arrival are contained in the deposition made by an officer of the Italian air force serving in Spain, of which the hon. Member for the Combined English Universities has sent him a copy; and whether he will bring this evidence to the notice of the Italian Government?

12. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister whether he is satisfied, after examining the evidence regarding recent arrivals of Italian aircraft and other munitions in Spain, that these do not constitute an infringement of the condition on which the Anglo-Italian negotiations were instituted, namely, that the situation in Spain should not be materially altered during the conversations by sending fresh reinforcements to General Franco?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)

From assurances I have received, and from such evidence as I have been able to sift, including that sent me by the hon. Lady, I have no reason to think that the position in Spain has been materially altered by recent Italian reinforcements to General Franco.

Miss Rathbone

Does the right hon. Gentleman believe that the deposition sent to him was authentic, and, if not, does not the arrival of several dozens of aeroplanes in the last three weeks constitute a substantial alteration? Will he not report the matter to the Non-Intervention Committee?

The Prime Minister

As I have already said, I have seen the deposition to which the hon. Lady refers; but I do not think that recent operations in Spain have been materially affected.

Mr. A. V. Alexander

May we take it from that answer that the Prime Minister is not denying that there may have been some reinforcements of men and material?

The Prime Minister

I am not denying that there may have been some reinforcements to both sides. What I said was that the situation does not appear to me to have been materially, altered.

9. Sir Nicholas Grattan-Doyle

asked the Prime Minister whether the British Consulate-General at Barcelona has now been transferred to Caldetas; and what means of communication British nationals in Barcelona have with the consulate?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir; but a branch office, in which a Vice-Consul lives, is maintained in Barcelona and a motor car is available there to take British subjects to the Consulate-General in Caldetas if necessary.

10. Sir N. Grattan-Doyle

asked the Prime Minister whether he is in a position to state the nature of the mission under the direction of Sir Philip Chetwode for the exchange of prisoners between both parties in Spain, and by whom the cost will be met?

Mr. Butler

I would refer my hon. Friend to the statement made last Monday in reply to a question by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Bournemouth (Sir H. Croft). It is proposed that the Arbitrator shall be stationed at Toulouse and that he shall have assistants at Barcelona and Burgos. The cost of the mission will be borne by His Majesty's Government.

16. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government intend to prevent the purchase of arms by the Government of Spain irrespective of the number of the troops and amount of material put at General Franco's disposal by Germany and Italy?

Mr. Butler

As long as His Majesty's Government remain bound by the Non-Intervention Agreement, they are precluded from allowing the export of arms to either of the two Spanish parties.

Mr. Strauss

The Minister does not answer my question. How long will they continue to support the Non-Intervention Committee? Is there any limit beyond which they will not tolerate intervention by Germany and Italy?

Mr. Butler

The hon. Member must allow the proceedings of the Non-Intervention Committee to continue until, we hope, they are successful.

Mr. Strauss

Is it the policy of the Government to give a free hand to Italy and Germany to send what material they like?

Miss Rathbone

Has not the reply just given by the Prime Minister been that the matters brought to the Non-Intervention Committee depended on whether the arms sent have made a difference to the result? Is there not clear proof that the arms sent have made a difference to the result?

18. Mr. Noel-Baker

asked the Prime Minister on what grounds His Majesty's Government agreed to the alteration from 20,000 to 10,000 of the basic figure in the British formula for the evacuation of foreign troops from Spain?

Mr. Butler

As the hon. Member will see from the communiqué issued after the meeting of the Chairman's Sub-Committee on 31st March, it was made clear at the time when the formula was put forward that any figures mentioned therein were intended to be no more than an illustration of the principle involved. The basic figure was subsequently the subject of negotiation between the representatives on the Committee of the Powers principally interested, and the figure of 10,000 was accepted by the four of five of these Powers.

Mr. Noel-Baker

The Minister has not answered the question. Why did the Government change from 20,000 to 10,000?

Mr. Butler

There is no question of change. The figure of 20,000 was put forward as an illustration of the principle involved, and the figure of 10,000 was the basic figure.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Is it not the fact that, apart from the figure, the formula had no meaning whatever?

19. Mr. Noel-Baker

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government have received an assurance that the Italian Government will withdraw their troops and advisers from Spain after the fighting in that country is over; and whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to accept such an assurance?

Mr. Butler

As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the Spanish situation is one of the questions being discussed in the Anglo-Italian conversations which are still pro- ceeding. I am not, therefore, at this stage in a position to make any statement on the subject.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Are we to understand that the Government will make an agreement even if the Italians do not withdraw their troops until after the war is over?

Mr. Butler

I have given the hon. Gentleman all the information I can.

Mr. Noel-Baker

In that case, is that regarded as consistent with the pledge that was given by the Prime Minister?

21. Mr. Edmund Harvey

asked the Prime Minister whether he can now make a statement as to the assistance which the Government propose to give to the feeding of child refugees in Spain?

Mr. Butler

In order that the International Commission for the Assistance of Child Refugees in Spain may begin their relief work with as little delay as possible, His Majesty's Government have decided to offer to contribute £10,000 now to that organisation, provided that an equivalent amount is available from elsewhere. I trust that in these circumstances many other Governments will agree in like manner to modify the conditions attaching to their offers.

22. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister what reply it is proposed to send to the note from the Spanish Government requesting the restoration of their right in international law to purchase munitions of war?

Mr. Butler

His Majesty's Government have replied that, after careful consideration of the arguments advanced in the note, they do not see their way to modify their declared policy of non-intervention in Spanish affairs.

Mr. Thurtle

Can the Minister state the justification of the Government for denying this right to the Spanish Government?

Mr. Butler

The arguments in favour of non-intervention have been put on many occasions.

23. Captain Ramsay

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that since the protest regarding bombing of civilian populations from the air Spanish Government war aeroplanes carried out a raid on Toledo, where there has been no military activity for over 18 months, and where the Social Aid restaurant for children was destroyed and the victims were entirely women and children; and will he make an immediate protest to the Barcelona Government?

25. Sir H. Croft

asked the Prime Minister whether he has information with regard to the air raids upon non-military objectives in Nationalist Spain numbering over 350, more especially those upon Merida, Granada, Cordoba, Seville, Segovia, Toledo, Avila, Huesca, Burgos, Bodabilla, Valladolid, and other numerous towns and villages; whether he is aware that the total casualties inflicted upon civilians, women and children far exceed those reported in Barcelona; and what action His Majesty's Government propose to take to express its abhorrence at this slaughter of non-combatants?

Mr. Butler

Reports have been received from time to time of aerial bombardments of some of the towns referred to in these questions. The House was informed on 4th April of the appeals addressed by His Majesty's Government to both Spanish parties to abstain from the bombardment of non-military objectives. I do not consider that further appeals or protests would serve any useful purpose at this stage.

Sir H. Croft

Will the Under-Secretary tell us definitely that if any protests are made they should be made equally to both sides, as these bombardments have been going on continuously against Nationalist Spain?

Mr. Butler

I can give my hon. and gallant Friend that assurance.

Miss Wilkinson

Is it not the fact that only the Government side in Spain, in response to the Government's note, agreed to the cessation of this bombing?

Mr. Butler

In reply to the question to which the hon. Lady refers, there is some truth in the remarks which she has made.

Miss Wilkinson

It is not some truth; it is the truth.

24. Captain Ramsay

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any information regarding the recent repairing of the Barcelona Government submarines C1 and C2 in French dockyards; and will he draw the attention of the Non-Intervention Committee to the aid to the Republican Spanish Government being given by the French Government?

Mr. Butler

There have been reports regarding such repairs, but I have no definite confirmation. I would, in any case, point out that this is not a matter which is covered by the Non-Intervention Agreement.