§ 9. Mr. A. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, as a result of the instructions sent to His Majesty's Ambassador at Hendaye, he is now in a position to make a statement with regard to the eight British nationals detained as prisoners by the Spanish insurgent authorities?
§ Mr. EdenHis Majesty's Ambassador at Hendaye has reported that the Military Governor of Irun, with whom he has been in touch on this subject, has promised to endeavour to obtain an early reply from Salamanca to the representations to which I referred in my reply to the questions put by the hon. Members for Central Southwark (Mr. Day) and West Leyton (Mr. Sorensen) on 9th June. The Military Governor added that he felt sure that there was no danger of the death sentence, to which two of the prisoners were alleged to have been condemned, being carried out; the position apparently being that these two men were held back for exchange purposes.
§ Mr. HendersonCan the right hon. Gentleman say why the other six men 817 were detained when the 20 odd prisoners were released a few weeks ago? Was it not because it was intended to retain them as hostages?
§ Mr. EdenTwo of them, I understand, they wished to exchange for other prisoners. We are doing our best to clarify the position.
§ 10. Mr. A. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will state which Governments have replied to His Majesty's Government's proposals for an inquiry into the bombardment of Guernica and the nature of their replies?
16. Miss Rathboneasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any progress has been made with the proposals for an inquiry into the bombing of Guernica; whether the Basque Government and the insurgent leaders have been asked whether they will consent to give facilities for such an inquiry; and with what result in either case?
§ Mr. EdenIn the early part of May last His Majesty's Government received from the Spanish Ambassador a copy of a statement issued by the Basque Government in which they declared that they were ready to receive any commission of inquiry into the destruction of Guernica. On 18th May His Majesty's Government, having stated that they were in favour of such an inquiry, invited the observations of the French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Soviet Governments on this suggestion, stating that if, in their view, such an international inquiry could usefully be made, His Majesty's Government were ready to co-operate in it whatever its scope. On 22nd May, a reply was received from the Portuguese Government to the effect that, in their view, such an initiative would be inopportune and that it could only be carried out if the inquiry were extended to all sufferings unjustly inflicted on the peaceful Spanish populations. In their opinion, there was no legal basis for such an inquiry.
As no further replies had been received by 28th May, His Majesty's Government were obliged to remind the other four Governments that their replies were still outstanding. On 31.st May they received a reply from the Italian Government, stating that they could not agree to the choice of a single episode as the object of such an inquiry, in view of the number 818 of atrocities proved to have been committed since the beginning of the war, and that they did not see in what way this inquiry would usefully serve the object of pacification in Spain. They felt that this object could be better served by the appeal which the Committee was then considering issuing to both sides to humanise the war. On 1st June the Soviet Government intimated that they were ready to take part in an inquiry into the destruction of Guernica. Finally, on 8th June the French Government stated that they were ready to subscribe to any initiative of His Majesty's Government in this connection. No reply has yet been received from the German Government. The House will note that this suggestion of His Majesty's Government did not receive any immediate acceptance from any of the five Powers whom they consulted, and they regret that all the Governments concerned do not concur in their view as to the value of such an inquiry even if it were extended as His Majesty's Government were willing to do to other incidents of a similar nature.
§ Mr. HendersonIs it not significant that the Portuguese and Italian Governments are opposed to the suggestion, and that the German Government have not replied?
§ Sir A. KnoxIs it not also significant that the Russian Government are in favour of it?
§ Brigadier-General Sir Henry CroftMay I ask whether it was made clear that His Majesty's Government could only consent to such an inquiry if it also included cases like Iviza and other places?
Miss RathboneThe right hon. Gentleman has not replied to one part of my question—whether the insurgent leaders had replied? I think he said that the Basque Government had consented hut did not say whether the insurgent leaders had consented.
§ Mr. Wedgwood BennHas the Foreign Office taken note of the studied discourtesy with which the German Government replies to nothing?
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherIs it not rather optimistic to expect the German Government to accept an inquiry into the destruction of Guernica by German aeroplanes?
§ 11. Mr. Dayasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will give particulars of any information he has received of the nationality and type of the aircraft used in the recent air attacks on Bilbao?
§ Mr. EdenWhile I am not in a position to give detailed information, I have good reason to believe that the aircraft employed by the insurgent forces in the recent attacks on Bilbao include the three main types of service land aircraft, namely, bombers, reconnaissance aircraft and fighters. Such information as is in my possession tends to show that these aircraft are of types of Italian and German manufacture in each category.
§ Mr. DayCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether the majority of these aeroplanes were of German manufacture?
§ Mr. BennIs the Foreign Secretary aware that the conquest of Bilbao has been entirely due to the intervention of aircraft from Italy and Germany?
§ Mr. EdenThe right hon. Gentleman will know that the Non-Intervention Agreement was subscribed to by all Governments, including Russia. His Majesty's Government, as at present advised do not intend to be the first to denounce it.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerWill His Majesty's Government make any protest against the fact which the right hon. Gentleman has just announced, that German and Italian aircraft were engaged?
§ Mr. EdenHis Majesty's Government would be in a very much stronger position if there were no foreign aircraft on either side.
§ 13. Mr. Bellengerasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any reply has been received from the Spanish insurgent authorities to the protest made by His Majesty's Government regarding the mining of His Majesty's Ship "Hunter"?
§ Mr. BellengerDoes not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this protest was made owing to the fact that British lives were lost and that the prima facie evidence went to show that it was due to a mine laid by the insurgents? Does not the right hon. Gentleman propose to fix a time limit?
§ Mr. EdenI realise all that the hon. Member has said, but he will also realise the difficulty of communicating with a Government with whom we have no accredited representative.
§ Mr. BennIs it not clear that the Spanish insurgents treat His Majesty's Government with complete contempt?
15. Miss Rathboneasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is now in a position to report upon the precautions, if any, proposed to be taken by the Non-Intervention Committee against abuses of the frontier and coastal control scheme in Spain, whether by placing neutral observers on the control warships, or by the substitution of trawlers for warships, or by the placing of observers in aerodromes in Spain and in those belonging to the participating countries, or in any other way?
§ Mr. EdenI understand that the question of improvements in the naval patrol scheme is on the agenda for the meeting of the Chairman's sub-committee of the Non-Intervention Committee this afternoon. I have said that I view with sympathy the proposal to place neutral observers en ships engaged in patrol duties. As regards placing observers in aerodromes in Spain or other countries, I have nothing to add to the statement which I made in reply to a question by the hon. Member on 2nd June.
Miss RathboneIn view of the admission of the right hon. Gentleman that Guernica was destroyed chiefly by 821 German and Italian aeroplanes, and in view of the statement made yesterday by General de Vayo that three times as many German and Italian aeroplanes had entered insurgent territory in the last three weeks as in the previous three months, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the control of aircraft coming in by air is of primary importance, as it is having more influence than anything else on the course of the war in Spain?
§ Mr. Noel-BakerWill the right hon. Gentleman ask the Non-Intervention Committee to publish its minutes in order that we may know which Governments rejected this reasonable proposal?
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherDoes the right hon. Gentleman not consider that it is very undignified for His Majesty's Government to remain a member of the Non-Intervention Committee when other members pay no attention to it?
17. Miss Rathboneasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the difficulty of obtaining satisfactory evidence as to the truth of alleged breaches of the Non-Intervention Pact, he will consider reviving the proposal that neutral observers should be placed in Spanish territory or, alternatively, that the League of Nations should be asked to appoint an international commission of inquiry in Spain?
§ Mr. EdenI would remind the hon. Member that any scheme which involves placing foreign officials on Spanish territory would require the consent and active collaboration of both parties in Spain. This has never been forthcoming in the past, and there is no reason to suppose that it would be forthcoming now.
Miss RathboneIn view of the acknowledged difficulty of securing any impartial evidence, and the repeated replies of His Majesty's Government that they have no evidence of facts which every newspaper correspondent has reported——
§ Mr. SpeakerWe cannot have references to newspaper reports.
Miss RathboneI am merely asking whether the right hon. Gentleman will 822 consider re-opening this question with the leaders of both sides in view of its obvious necessity?
§ Mr. EdenI am certainly prepared to open this matter with both sides if I have any reason to believe that they would accept it.
§ Mr. CocksYou have referred, Mr. Speaker, to newspaper reports. May I draw your attention to the fact that the Foreign Secretary referred to a statement in the Press in answering a question just now?
§ Mr. SpeakerHe did not base his answer on a statement in the Press.
§ 18. Mr. Cocksasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that papers found on the German air-pilot Joachim Hans Wandel, captured on the Basque front, show that he left Berlin on 22nd April, two months after the agreement concerning volunteers; and whether he will bring this case and the similar case of Hans Sobotka, who left Berlin on 6th April with a German passport, to the attention of the Non-Intervention Committee or the German Government?
§ Mr. EdenI have received from the Spanish Government certain evidence relating to the two points raised in the hon. Member's question. No request has, however, been made that His Majesty's Government should forward this information to the Non-Intervention Committee.
§ Mr. CocksSeeing that the British Government are parties to this agreement, and that this is a distinct breach of it, is it not up to the British Government to take steps themselves, seeing that the Spanish Government are not represented on the Committee?
§ Sir A. KnoxWill the right hon. Gentleman state whether, if questions of this type so embitter relations as to lead to war, will it be a private socialist war run by the Socialist Opposition, or will the fighting men of England have to take part?
§ 19. Mr. Cocksasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has now studied the volume of evidence of Italian intervention in Spain submitted 823 by the Spanish Government to the League of Nations; and what steps he is taking to give this information to the House?
§ Mr. EdenThe document has been examined. The hon. Member will realise that it was published by the Spanish Government, but was not officially circulated to Members of the League. I am arranging to place a copy of the document in the Library of the House. It will be accompanied by a summary in English prepared by the Spanish Delegation at Geneva for the Press.
§ 20. Mr. Cocksasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what replies he has received to the request he made to British consular and diplomatic representatives for information regarding the bombing of Guernica?
§ Mr. EdenI have received certain information on this subject, and, as the House is aware, His Majesty's Government proposed an inquiry into the matter on an international basis. I am not in possession of any considered reports.
§ Mr. CocksHaving got this information from the consular authorities and the Ambassador, will the right hon. Gentleman state what the information is?
§ Mr. EdenI said that I was not in possession of any considered reports, and I explained that such information as I have will be placed at the disposal of the inquiry.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherAs there is not the slightest prospect of this inquiry being held, cannot we have the information here?
§ 24. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can make a statement concerning the progress of negotiations for the withdrawal of foreign troops from Spain?
§ Mr. EdenThe report drawn up by the Technical Sub-Committee of the Non-Intervention Committee, which contains a scheme for effecting the withdrawal of all foreign combatants from Spain is, I understand: under consideration by the Chair- 824 man's Sub-Committee this afternoon. I can assure the House that His Majesty's Government are doing their utmost to accelerate the committee's work on this problem. In this connection they are themselves making certain suggestions to the committee this afternoon with the object of expediting the actual withdrawal of men from Spain.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn order that this country and the world may have guarantees of our good faith, will the right hon. Gentleman again consider publishing the scheme and the minutes of the discussion in the Non-Intervention Committee?
§ Mr. EdenI am quite prepared to consider that. I think the House will admit that if it rested with His Majesty's Government alone, this withdrawal would have been effected long ago.
§ Mr. Arthur Greenwood(By Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any statement to make on the position in Spain and on the proceedings of the Non-Intervention Committee at the Conference of Ambassadors on Saturday last.
§ Mr. EdenThe House will be aware that the city of Bilbao was occupied by General Franco's troops on Saturday last. I have already stated in answer to questions this afternoon the position as regards the work of the Non-Intervention Committee, particularly with regard to the question of the withdrawal of foreign combatants and the consideration of measures for the improvement of the naval patrol scheme. On Saturday afternoon the German Ambassador presented a note reporting that four attempts had recently been made to torpedo the German cruiser "Leipzig" and requesting His Majesty's Government to arrange that the four Governments parties to the Agreement of 12th June should immediately concert measures to be taken in common. I understand that similar communications were made to the French and Italian Governments. I received the French, German and Italian Ambassadors at the Foreign Office the same evening and after preliminary discussion the representatives of the four Powers present undertook to consult at once with their Governments and agreed to meet again not later that to-day. A further meeting is now in progress.
Duchess of AthollIs it absolutely certain that the facts are as stated? Should not there be an inquiry before action is taken?
Mr. Lloyd GeorgeI should also like to press that point. Surely there ought to be some sort of investigation into these alleged attacks in view of the fact that Signor Prieto has definitely stated that the submarines of the Spanish Government were in port at that time? Should not there be some independent investigation of the facts before any conclusion is come to?
§ Mr. EdenI fully appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's point, but he will also appreciate my position when I am in the middle of these consultations. I can definitely tell the House that the importance of an inquiry is very much in my mind.
§ Mr. GreenwoodWill the right hon. Gentleman be able to make a statement to-morrow?
§ Mr. Noel-BakerCannot the question of fact and law be referred to the Permanent Court of International Justice under the Optional Clause?
§ Mr. A. HendersonDid the German Ambassador produce any evidence as to who was responsible or these attempts to torpedo this ship?
§ Mr. EdenThe hon. Member cannot ask me to reveal the secrets of the proceedings. Our object is to achieve a peaceful solution of the difficulty.
§ Mr. MacquistenDid the German Ambassador suggest that Franco did it?
§ Mr. Greenwood(By Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the French Government has received 30,000 Spanish refugees, His Majesty's Government will take its share of responsibility in this humane work by making arrangements for the reception in this country of Basque refugees who are now at Santander, and will provide protection for British vessels willing to convey them.
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)His Majesty's Government have recently been in consultation with the French Government on the whole problem presented by the presence of Basque refugees 826 on the north coast of Spain, but I am not at present in a position to make any further statement.
§ Mr. GreenwoodIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that hundreds of these people are now fleeing for their lives, that hundreds are dying of starvation, that Santander is highly overcrowded, that food is running short there, that there is a serious fear of an epidemic, and that it is a matter of hours and not of days?
Mr. Lloyd GeorgeBefore the Prime Minister replies to that question, may I ask whether the Government have examined the possibility of removing some of these refugees through France to either Barcelona or Valencia?
§ The Prime MinisterWe have not at the moment sufficient information to enable us to say what is the best method of dealing with this problem. I think everybody desires to do everything he can to help in a humanitarian work, but the situation is at present very obscure. We do not know at this moment what the numbers of the refugees are, or what sort of refugees they are, or what possibilities there are of helping them. Those are the things we are trying to find out.
Mr. Lloyd GeorgeWill the right hon. Gentleman promise that he will examine that as one of the suggestions to be considered, because it is a definite practical suggestion which has been made?
§ The Prime MinisterCertainly, and I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. GreenwoodAs it is understood that there are certain British and other ships already in Spanish waters which are prepared to help in the evacuation of Basque women and children, will the tight hon. Gentleman undertake at once to see that those ships gain the protection of British war vessels?
§ The Prime MinisterWe have, as of course the right hon. Gentleman knows, given the protection of British warships to British and other ships carrying Basque women and children, and in similar circumstances we shall be prepared to give the same protection.
§ Mr. GreenwoodIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that a British warship has recently refused to give any such assistance, because there was no British consul at Santander?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that was because the French authorities were not at the time ready to take the children.
Duchess of AthollMay we, then, understand from the Prime Minister's last reply that if the French Government are prepared to allow refugee Basque women and children to go for transmission to Barcelona or Valencia, then no difficulty would arise about British naval protection being afforded?
§ The Prime MinisterI understood my Noble Friend to specify women and children. In that case, certainly.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydIs there any evidence of a reign of terror in the liberated districts in Spain, and may I ask whether——
§ Mr. ThurtleOn a point of Order.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydOn a point of Order.
§ Mr. SpeakerWhat is the hon. Member's point of Order?
§ Mr. ThurtleMay I ask whether it is in accordance with the Rules of Order that a question-begging epithet should be introduced into a question?
§ Mr. SpeakerI did not hear any epithet.
§ Mr. ThurtleMay I submit that the hon. Member used the epithet "liberated"? I submit that that is a question-begging epithet.
§ Mr. Lennox-BoydMay I have leave to finish my question? I was asking my right hon. Friend whether it is not the fact that quite shortly, after the food problem is settled, refugees can return with impunity to the Basque Province?
§ Mr. GreenwoodIf I repeat the question to-morrow, will the Government then be in a position to say something specific as to their intentions with regard to the Basque refugees?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman knows that the situation in France is not such as to be conducive to the speedy obtaining of information, but we will do all we can.