HC Deb 17 June 1937 vol 325 cc560-3
64 Mr. White

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury (1) whether any estimate has been made of the probable increase in the number of eligible old age pensioners in 1948, and the increased cost to the State of paying pensions at the present rate;

(2) the present number of persons over 65 years of age who are in receipt of State pensions and also in employment; and whether any estimate has been made of the probable number of such persons in 1948;

(3) whether any estimate has been prepared of the probable increase in the number of persons in the United Kingdom who will be over 65 in 1946 as compared with 1936, and of the probable decrease in the working population under 65 in the same period?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

The number of persons over the age of 65 now living in Great Britain is estimated to be about 3,850,000 of whom just over 70 per cent. are in receipt of pensions under the Contributory Pensions or Old Age Pensions Acts. In 10 years' time, it is estimated that the number will have grown to 4,700,000, and that the percentage in receipt of pension will be rather more than the present figure. The total annual cost of pensions under the Acts (excluding pensions to widows under 65) is at present about £71,000,000 and in To years' time will, it is estimated, have become £89,000,000. This cost is borne by the Exchequer as regards those over 70 and by the Pensions Account (to which there is an Exchequer contribution) as regards those between 65 and 70. The number of pensioners over 65 for whom stamped cards in respect of employment are received is about 330,000. The number of aged persons in employment is so much dependent on economic conditions that no estimate can profitably be made of the probable number in industry in 10 years' time. The working population under 65 (as measured by the number of insured persons between the ages of 16 and 65), is likely to be very little different in 10 years' time from the figure to-day.

Mr. Batey

Is not part of the £71,000,000 paid for old age pensions paid by the contributions of the contributors?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

I will repeat that part of the answer. I said the total annual cost of pensions under the Acts (excluding pensions to widows under 65) is at present about £71,000,000.… This cost is borne by the Exchequer as regards those over 70 and by the Pensions Account (to which there is an Exchequer contribution) as regards those between 65 and 70.

Mr. Batey

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman tell us exactly what is the cost to the State?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

As far as the pensions account is concerned, I would require notice of the amount of the Exchequer contribution.

Mr. Batey

Would I be right in saying that it is only £43,000,000?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

The hon. Member must not jump to conclusions.

67 and 68. Mr. Groves

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury (1) whether he will consider amending the Old Age Pensions Act, 1936, to provide that, in calculating the yearly means of a person who has become an inmate of any workhouse or other poor law institution for the purpose of obtaining medical or surgical treatment, the cost of his maintenance in such institution shall be excluded from the calculation of yearly means;

(2) whether he will consider amending the Old Age Pensions Act, 1936, to provide that a person who is being maintained in any place as a rate-aided person of unsound mind or who is detained in any mental hospital within the meaning of the Lunacy and Mental Treatment Acts, 1890 to 1930, shall not be disqualified from receiving an old age pension as long as he continues to require such treatment or is being so maintained or kept, and that, in calculating the yearly means of such person, the cost of this maintenance shall be excluded?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

I would refer the hon. Member to the full answer I gave on 29th April last to the hon. Member for Central Bradford (Mr. Leach).

Mr. Leach

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman realise that the answer that he gave me on that occasion amounted to a refusal to amend the law in this respect, and that he is in danger of being regarded as hard-hearted?

Lieut.-Colonel Colville

I hope I shall not be regarded as hard-hearted, but the reason that I gave on that occasion holds good now, and it is that the effect of this change would largely be to make a grant-in-aid of local expenditure, because the pensions would in many cases—probably in most—be appropriated by the local authority; and we regretted that we could not see our way to amend the law in this sense.

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