HC Deb 27 July 1937 vol 326 cc3054-6

Lords Amendment: In page 47, line 11, leave out from "as" to the end of line 14 and insert: is remuneration for duties corresponding to the duties in respect of which he was, immediately before the appointed day, subject to the Act of 1896.

Sir K. Wood

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment and the consequential Amendments which follow are really drafting Amendments. The intention of the Bill, as drafted, was that a transferred officer formerly superannuable under the Act of 1896 should contribute at the rate specified in this paragraph in respect of the salary he received for his work in the transferred office. This Amendment is to make it clear that on any increase of salary granted to him by reason of increased responsibility of his office or increased volume of work in that office the special rates of contribution applicable to the transferred officer should apply to any such increase of his pensionable remuneration. The Amendment meets the case of that particular officer.

Subsequent Lords Amendments to page 47, line 21, agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 51, line 6, after "subsection" insert: (3) of section three and subsections (5) and.

Mr. Speaker

This Amendment raises a question of Privilege, because it would restrict the service in calculating superannuation allowance.

Sir K. Wood

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment is really to clarify the intention of the Bill in regard to its application to justices' clerks and their employés. I think we have already made it clear during the various stages of the Bill that the only justices' clerks and employés of justices' clerks whom the Bill proposes to make superannuable are whole-time justices' clerks and their whole-time employés, and that service [...] a part-time capacity will not be a qualification for pension and not reckonable in assessing it. This Amendment is to make that matter quite clear.

1.6 a.m.

Mr. Ede

Does it mean that the whole-time service of a whole-time clerk, or will it be the whole-time service of a part-time clerk?

Sir K. Wood

It is perfectly clear, so far as the clerks of the justices are concerned, that they must be serving full time. We cannot put on local authorities the responsibility for pensions for part-time people.

Mr. Ede

The right hon. Gentleman has not quite understood my point. A part-time clerk of the justices might have a whole-time clerk in his employment who was entirely engaged on justices' work. It is not an uncommon thing to find that the real clerk of the justices is some quite poorly-paid clerk in the clerk's office. Can that person qualify for a superannuation?

Sir K. Wood

Not if he is in the employ of a part-time justices' clerk himself. We could not impose that on local authorities. Conditions are altering, and generally speaking indirectly employed people are rapidly coming into the employment of the local authorities themselves.

1.8 a.m.

Mr. A. Jenkins

There are instances perfectly well known where a clerk is employed whole-time on justices' work by the justices' clerk who works part-time. Such a person is just as much employed full-time as the clerks employed by the justices themselves. Is it not a great hardship on these clerks that they should not be accepted, while other clerks doing precisely the same work are included in these benefits?

1.9 a.m.

Sir K. Wood

I think there is a great deal to be said as far as these clerks are concerned, but the hon. Member will appreciate that it would be impossible to impose on the local authorities the obligation to pension employés of those who are not employed whole-time. The real way of meeting such cases—and it is gradually happening at the present time—is that justices' clerks should come within whole-time employment.

Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.—[Special Entry.]

Lords Amendment: In page 54, line 44, at the end, insert: 4. Where the fund out of which the remuneration of a mental hospital employé was or is paid by the body under which he was or becomes such an employé is not the fund out of which superannuation allowances are paid to such employés, the foregoing provisions of this Part of this Schedule shall have effect subject to such modifications as may he prescribed.

Sir K. Wood

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment is necessary because in some cases by local legislation provision for superannuation of mental hospital employés under an Act of 1909 is made by means of superannuation funds, and the Bill as it stands does not envisage these cases.

SUNDAY ENTERTAINMENTS ACT, 1932.

Resolved, That the Order made by the Secretary of State under the Sunday Entertainments Act, 2932, for extending section one of that Act to the urban district of Ruislip-Northwood, which was presented on the 8th day of July, 2937, be approved.

Resolved, That the Order made by the Secretary of State under the Sunday Entertainments Act, 1932, for extending section one of that Act to the borough of Ramsgate, which was presented on the 19th day of July, 1937, be approved.

Resolved, That the Order made by the Secretary of State under the Sunday Entertainments Act, 1932, for extending section one of that Act to the borough of Wood Green, which was presented on the 20th day of July, 1937, be approved."—[Mr. Lloyd.]

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

It being after Half-past Eleven of the Clock upon Tuesday evening, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at Twelve Minutes after One o'Clock a.m.