67. Mr. MacEnteeasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is prepared to apply the principle enunciated in paragraph 55 of the Report of the Reorganisation Committee of the National Whitley Council of the Civil Service, namely, that permanent employment should be upon a pensionable footing, to the case of Government messengers who are permanently employed?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleIn the paragraph in question the committee called special attention to certain cardinal elements in the revised scheme which they had devised for the recruitment and classification of the administrative and clerical branches of the Civil Service. Their recommendations did not relate to messengerial and allied grades where different circumstances obtain.
§ Mr. McEnteeIs not the fact that this is a lowly grade, the only different circumstance; and, in view of the Minister's power to grant pensions to men in this grade of the Service, will he not take such steps in favour of these men?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleThe messengerial staff is in general, as I think the hon. Member knows, organised in two grades, the higher of which is established, and members of the lower grade are eligible for promotion to the higher grade. I cannot recommend departure from that arrangement.
§ 68. Mr. Roland Robinsonasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in the case of civil servants who have recently become established for purposes of pension, he will consider increasing the age limit of admission to pensions schemes from 50 to 55 years, in accordance with the age of admission to voluntary contributory pensions?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleI assume that my hon. Friend is referring to those employés who have not been established. The age at which civil servants may be called upon to retire on grounds of age is 60, and the minimum period of service which qualifies for pension is 10 years. While the normal limit of age for establishment is 50 or a lower age, unestablished employés have, in certain circumstances, been admitted to the pensionable 868 establishment at ages in excess of 50, if they were able, by the addition of such unestablished service as was reckonable, to complete this period of 10 years by the age of 60. The provisions of the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions (Voluntary Contributors) Act which are related to a pensionable age of 65 and which fix the age limit for future entrants at 40 do not appear to be comparable.
§ 69. Mr. Robinsonasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury what is the position in regard to periods of temporary or otherwise unestablished service in the assessment of Civil Service pensions; and whether, in cases where temporary service is excluded, this is done on grounds of principle or of expediency?
§ Lieut-Colonel ColvilleIn the case of persons whose unestablished service began before 27th June, 1935, the Treasury have power under Statute, in the event of establishment, to reckon previous unestablished service for pension, if in their opinion any special circumstances of the case warrant such a course. The decisions which have been taken in the exercise of this discretion cannot be briefly summarised but their effect was considered by the Royal Commission on the Civil Service (1929–31) to be more favourable to Civil servants than was justified by the true construction of the Statute. This power was abolished by the Superannuation Act, 1935, as regards persons whose unestablished service began after its commencement and a uniform rule was substituted for such persons that in the event of their establishment one half of their continuous unestablished service from not earlier than 27th June, 1935, should reckon for pension.
§ 70. Mr. Robinsonasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he will consider setting up a committee to inquire into the grievance of temporary or otherwise unestablished Civil servants in regard to pensionable service?
§ 71. Mr. R. Gibsonasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he has any statement to make regarding the setting up a committee to inquire into and report on the question of counting, for pension purposes, the period of unestablished service under the Crown of Civil servants taken into establishment in Greenock and elsewhere in the United 869 Kingdom after unestablished service, or otherwise to make recommendations regarding a more generous exercise by the Treasury of its discretion in the operation of the Superannuation Acts than has hitherto prevailed?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleI would refer the hon. Members to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 8th July last to the hon. Member for Everton (Mr. Kirby) and other hon. Members.
§ Mr. GibsonIs the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware of the widespread desire for this committee of inquiry, and does he see in my hand a batch of letters on the subject, which I received an hour ago?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleThe hon. and learned Member will be aware of the answer to which I have referred, in which my right hon. Friend said that although the matter had been repeatedly examined, the question whether further inquiries would serve a useful purpose would receive due consideration.
§ Mr. StephenCan the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say when we shall be informed whether the committee is to be set up?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleNot yet.
§ Mr. GallacherCan the right hon. and gallant Gentleman not say that there will be an inquiry? Is there any reason why there should not be an inquiry?
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleI cannot go beyond what my right hon. Friend has said.