HC Deb 07 June 1935 vol 302 cc2182-4
Mr. GODFREY NICHOLSON

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the steamship "Orient City," of 6,622 gross tons, and the steamship "Francisco," of 6,272 gross tons, have been sold to Italy for breaking up, and whether he will take steps to ensure that tonnage to be broken up under the scrap-and-build scheme is sold to British ship-breaking yards?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE, (Dr. Burgin)

Permission has been given for these two ships, which are being demolished under the scrap-and-build scheme, to be sold for scrapping abroad. Such permission is given only after careful consideration and upon the recommendation of the Ships Replacement Committee. In coming to a decision on any individual case, the main question which has to be considered is whether the difference between British and foreign prices offered for the ship is so great that an insistence on demolition in the United Kingdom would jeopardise the carrying out of the proposal and thus prevent the shipping and shipbuilding industries from obtaining the benefits which the scheme was designed to secure for them.

Mr. NICHOLSON

Is my hon. Friend aware that this is not the only case where ships are being sold abroad for breaking up? Will he take this opportunity of dispelling any suspicions that may exist that there is a ring among British ship-breakers to give low prices, and will he give the industry a chance of putting forward its case on this complex and controversial question?

Dr. BURGIN

There is no difficulty about the industry putting forward any views that it desires, but this permission to scrap these ships abroad is an exceptional permission, which was granted on the recommendation of the Ships Replacement Committee. I think the House may rest assured that if the trade committee thinks that it is right that permission should be granted, permission ought to be given.

Mr. THORNE

Can the hon. Member say whether we have any guarantee from those who buy these ships that they will be broken up?

Dr. BURGIN

I think it is part of the sale contract that the ships shall be broken up.

4. Mr. NICHOLSON

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that approximately 95,000 gross tons of British-owned steamers have been sold during the present year for breaking up abroad, and whether, in view of this and of the fact that nearly 140,000 tions of scrap were imported into this country during the first four months of this year, he will take active steps to discourage the sale of British-owned steamers for breaking up abroad?

Dr. BURGIN

The imports of scrap were as stated in the question, and I am also prepared to accept the figure stated as to steamers sold for breaking up abroad. To complete the picture, it should be borne in mind that during the same period vessels of about the same tonnage were disposed of for breaking up in this country; and about 62,000 tons of scrap were exported from this country during the first four months of this year. My right hon. Friend does not consider that restrictions on the sale of British steamers for breaking up abroad are required, other than those contained in the British Shipping (Assistance) Act, 1935.

Mr. NICHOLSON

Is my hon. Friend aware that this position is exceedingly unsatisfactory, as the Italian ship-breakers are paying enormous prices for scrap, owing to political conditions in that country; and is he aware that it is thought that British steel and iron works are paying a bigger price for imported scrap than for British scrap, and that there is a very strong feeling of grievance among British shipbreakers, which I hope he will take an early opportunity of clearing up?

Dr. BURGIN

I will certainly keep the whole subject under review, but when the British Shipping Assistance Act, 1935, was passing through this House, a good deal was said about the possibility of vessels being scrapped abroad if it was impossible to secure adequate prices for scrapping in this country, and great care is being taken in every instance where special permission to scrap abroad is granted only to do it when the whole of the circumstances have been reviewed by the Department.

Mr. NICHOLSON

Will my hon. Friend treat the question on a broader basis than on each individual instance, as it is a large question?

Mr. CHARLES WILLIAMS

Is my hon. Friend aware that many people think it very unsatisfactory that this work should go abroad at all?