HC Deb 06 June 1935 vol 302 cc2170-2

Order for Second Reading read.

10.32 p.m.

The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Captain Crookshank)

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time."

I do not think it requires very many words from me to explain this brief Bill, which has come down to us from another place. The reasons which have led to its introduction are that in 1929 a Convention was signed at Geneva to deal with counterfeit currency, because some three years before the French Government had called the attention of the League of Nations to certain instances in which currency was being forged in a foreign country. There had been, of course, the notorious case of French banknotes being forged on a large scale in Hungary. As a matter of fact, we in this country suffer from counterfeiting in foreign countries as much as any country, perhaps for the reason that our currency is so good and a Bank Of England note is thought a valuable thing to possess. As a result of the discussions a Convention was signed in 1929 with all the countries whose delegates were present at the League of Nations, and with the United States and Russia as well. The Convention laid it down first, that counterfeiting of currency should be a crime; secondly, that the counterfeiting of the currency of a foreign country should be punished in any given place as severely as the counterfeiting of the domestic currency; thirdly, that counterfeiting or attempting to counterfeit foreign coins should be an extradition crime; and, fourthly, that the investigation of the counterfeiting of coinage should Le organised by a central office and that central officers in different countries should be in touch one with another. This Bill is to give effect to that Convention.

The appointing officers we do not need to deal with, because Scotland Yard is already our central office for that purpose. Indeed, both English and Scottish law is already mostly in conformity with the legal proposals of the Convention. At the present time the penalties for counterfeiting domestic coinage in this country are heavier than they are for counterfeiting a foreign coinage, and, therefore, the more important Clauses, which appear rather grim as printed, are to bring up to our own home level the offence of counterfeiting foreign coinage in this country. That is why we have to legislate.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Does this apply to Colonial coinage?

Captain CROOKSHANK

Clauses 1 and 3give foreign currency the same protection as our own in this country. Clause 2 enables the court to order the delivery to the Secretary of State of any forged banknote or apparatus used or intended to be used to forge notes. That is not because we want to have a great collection of those things in the Home Office, but in order to enable us to pass them on to the State concerned. The Clause does not deal with coinage be cause we already have that power in regard to it. Clause4deals with extradition proceedings. At present it is possible to extradite for actual forgery and counterfeiting in this country, but not for attempting to do so, and the Clause remedies that omission in accordance with the terms of the Convention. The House will want to know that there is no new power of seizure under the Bill.

All the powers which are added by the Bill bring up our domestic law to the standard set down in the Convention. It is satisfactory to know that our law is already so good in these matters that we need do little to wards altering it. If the Bill be passed, it will enable us to place on record at Geneva the formal ratification of the Convention, to which, I think, 22countries are already bound. It will be one more example of our desire for friendly co-operation with other States with in the framework of the procedure of the League of Nations. When there are so many critics of the League of Nations, it is worth bringing before the House the fact that this is one of the kinds of measures which may be carried out to-day by the League of Nations for the general advantage of the world, and which at an earlier time might have been much more difficult. I would sum up this humble little Bill by saying that it is one to provide for the collective security of coinage.

Mr. RHYS DAVIES

The re was a notorious case in this country some time ago of the forging of insurance stamps, and I am wondering whether the term "coinage" covers a case of that kind. It might be so, in view of the growth of the social services in all the countries concerned, because the value of the stamps runs into millions of pounds every year. The hon. and gallant Gentleman may be able to enlighten us in that respect.

10.38p.m

Mr. TINKER

One welcomes this Bill, and also a remark made by the hon. and gallant Gentleman who has brought it forward. When he sat up yonder, on one of the higher benches, he was one of the sternest critics of the League of Nations.

Captain CROOKSHANK

Oh, no.

Mr. TINKER

It appeared so to me, and I look upon him now as one of the converts. We all agree with his description of the Measure. It is the work of the League of Nations to try to bring about common ground in a case like this, which is to prevent counterfeit money from passing from one country to another.

Question, "That the Bill be read a Second time," put, and agreed to

Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House, for Monday, 17th June.—[Sir G. Penny.]