HC Deb 30 July 1935 vol 304 cc2601-4
The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I understand that the Lords Amendments to line 16 in page 190 are drafting, and I will put them en bloc.

Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendments."

Duchess of ATHOLL

I think they are rather more than drafting. They deal with a very important matter, and I am much relieved to see this Clause come back in a substantially different form to that in which it left this House. When the Bill left us two months ago I felt extremely anxious in regard to this Clause, and I am considerably relieved to see the Amendments which have been inserted. As the Bill left us it would have been possible for the Government by Order-in-Council at any time after the Bill became law to propose the abolition of the special electorates and to be obliged only to ascertain the views of Governments and Legislatures, a very different matter from obtaining the assent of the communities concerned which was the pledge given in the Communal Award. It is a great satisfaction to me to see how both Sub-section (1) and Sub-section (4) of this Clause have been amended in another place. Now, although it is possible by Sub-section (4) that action in the direction I have indicated can be taken by the Government at any time after the Bill becomes law, the Government will be obliged to ascertain the views of any minorities concerned and, in particular, to ascertain whether a majority of the representatives of that community in the Legislature concerned are in agreement with the change proposed, and these views will have to be reported to Parliament. That does go a considerable way towards what was promised in the Communal Award as to the necessity of securing the assent of the minority. Parliament will be seized of the views of the minorities concerned as a whole, so far as that can be ascertained, and in particular will be seized as to whether a majority of the communities' representatives approve of the proposed change.

Again, if an Indian Legislature after 10 years, under Sub-section (1), asks for any change in the method of election or the proportion of representatives of the different communities, the Governor-General has to inform His Majesty's Government of the views of the communities concerned, and whether a majority of those communities' representatives in the particular Legislature approve of the change. These Amendments, therefore, do require something very like the assent of the communities, and what is very important, these requirements are not limited merely to the provincial Legislature but also extend to the Federal Legislature; and as the communal award contained no pledge that there should be no change in the method of election to the Federal Legislature except after 10 years, or with the assent of the communities—the pledge of the communal award only extended to provincial Legislatures—it does seem to me to be a substantial concession to minorities that any change in the Federal Legislature that may be approved either by the Legislature itself or by His Majesty's Government will be subject to the same requirements in regard to the ascertainment of the views of the minorities concerned as in the case of the provincial Legislatures.

I therefore sum up the Amendments by saying that it seems to me that while on the one hand it may be said that the Clause now does not give in regard to the provincial legislatures quite all that was originally promised, it does give substantially more than was promised in regard to the Federal Legislature, and that is a matter of great importance because, after all, the Federal Legislature is necessarily the most important of the Legislatures which are to be set up, and it is a Legislature in which Mohammedans have a definite knowledge that they must be in a minority. Therefore, it is very important that they should be given the same safeguard against a change in the method of election in regard to the Federal Legislature as was given in regard to Provincial Legislatures. And, though the time limit is absent in regard to action by His Majesty's Government, 10 years pass very rapidly, and after that period the minorities would have no safeguard at all in regard to the Federal Legislature. It seems, therefore, much more important that they should have safeguards in regard to both Federal and Provincial Legislatures that will operate beyond the period of 10 years, than to have had something a little more definite in regard to the Provincial Legislatures and nothing in regard to the Federal Legislature. I hope that minorities who have been very disturbed in India over the Clause as it left us will feel that their apprehensions have been largely met by the changes that have been made.

9.32 p.m.

Mr. BUTLER

I am glad to hear from the Noble Lady that she is satisfied with the Amendments made to this Clause. I do not wish to follow her into all the arguments, or to pursue the various points that she has put to the House, but it is satisfactory at any rate, that if there were any doubts in regard to the Government's intention in regard to the communal award they should have been cleared up. This will give Parliament the opportunity of having before it the views of the minorities, and I think that on that point it is very satisfactory. I must say that there was never any intention on the part of the Government to go behind the Communal Award. In Parliament it is natural that those who press their claims should press them in a determined way, but I should have liked some recognition that we did not intend to go behind the Communal Award. It is a question that we regard with great seriousness, and therefore I am glad at this stage to hear that at any rate one of our opponents is satisfied with the changes that have been made.