HC Deb 05 April 1935 vol 300 cc761-3

3.27 p.m.

Mr. BUTLER

I beg to move, in page 138, line 26, after "who," to insert: having been appointed to a civil service of, or a civil post, under the Crown in India. This is a drafting Amendment. In its present form Sub-section (1) might be held to refer to military pensioners who, in fact, are covered by Clause 226.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. BUTLER

I beg to move, in page 133, line 30, at the end, to insert: and in any other case shall he paid out of the revenues of the Federation. This Amendment is moved to make it clear that if a pension is not payable out of the revenues of a Province it will be payable out of the revenues of the Federation.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In page 138, line 33, leave out "or".—[Mr. Butler.]

Mr. BUTLER

I beg to move, in page 138, line 34, after "II." to insert: a Railway Service Class I, or a Railway Service Class II. Railway services are classified separately from the Central Services proper, and it is more accurate to refer to them as distinct services.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. G. NICHOLSON

About the creation of the new Provinces of Orissa and Sind—

Sir S. HOARE

That does not come in under this Clause.

3.30 p.m.

Duchess of ATHOLL

As this Clause refers to pensions may I ask two questions? One refers to proportionate pensions, that is, the pensions of men who retire before the normal period of service is completed. Could the hon. Gentleman give a clear statement as to whether it will be possible for a man now in the Service to retire on a proportionate pension up to and including a certain date. A question was put down to this effect two weeks ago, and the answer which was given seemed to mean that the right was to be conferred only upon people who had been in the Service some years ago. I put down a further question, and was referred to the former answer. Many people would be glad to hear a clear statement on the subject. We cannot forget that on or about the day on which the White Paper was published, in March, 1933, a statement was made by my right hon. Friend on this subject, and was understood as conferring the right upon officers now in the Service and up to some date to be fixed. I understand that there is considerable doubt among those officers as to what the statement exactly means. The Joint Select Committee made no recommendation on the subject. The other day I put a question—

The CHAIRMAN

I am not quite sure that the Secretary of State ought to answer the question. I have no objection to his doing so, but I do not think that it arises on the Clause.

Duchess of ATHOLL

I am sorry. May I put the question? The point has been raised to-day in regard to security of pension—

Sir S. HOARE

It does not come in here.

Duchess of ATHOLL

May I ask if the Secretary of State will say a word on the question I have put to him?

3.32 p.m.

Sir S. HOARE

I am perfectly ready, with your approval Sir Dennis, to answer it now, although I do not think it has anything to do with the Clause. Retirement pension would be open to all officials serving before the Constitution Act comes into operation and to new recruits, until the contemplated inquiry proposed changes and those changes are sanctioned by Parliament.

Duchess of ATHOLL

The changes meaning as to the Secretary of State relinquishing his authority.

Sir S. HOARE

The changes contemplated in the inquiry in Clause 251, namely, the inquiry into the future of the Services generally at some unspecified date in the future.

Duchess of ATHOLL

Thank you.

Question, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill ", put, and agreed to.