HC Deb 05 April 1935 vol 300 cc751-3

2.55 p.m.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL

I beg to move, in page 136, line 24, after "to," to insert: or the withdrawal of any magisterial powers from. This Clause provides that no recommendation shall be made for the grant of magisterial powers or of enhanced magisterial powers excepting after consultation with the district magistrate of the district in which the person concerned is working. The same principle which applies in the granting of magisterial powers ought to apply to the withdrawal or diminution of magisterial powers, and the first Amendment on the Order Paper —which is really only a drafting Amendment—puts that right. I may perhaps just say a word on the second Amendment, which is also a drafting Amendment. It is simply filling up a gap in the Clause and does not alter the scope and intention of the Clause. It simply provides that where you are dealing with the jurisdiction of a Presidency magistrate the Chief Presidency Magistrate obviously would be the proper person to be consulted. The second Amendment on the Paper covers that case.

Amendment agreed to.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL

I beg to move, in page 136, line 25, at the end, to add: or with the Chief Presidency Magistrate, as the case may be

2.57 p.m.

Duchess of ATHOLL

I should like to ask my hon. and learned Friend who is the person to consult with the district magistrate? Is it the Governor or is it the minister? If it is the Governor, is it the Governor acting in his individual judgment? And might we know what the present procedure is, so that we may understand what change, if any, the Clause will make?

2.58 p.m.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL

I am not sure whether I can very satisfactory answer to my Noble Friend. I took the Clause as being quite general in dealing with any case where there is any question of a magistrate having his powers increased or diminished. I should have thought that certainly in the case of subordinate magistrates recommendations of this kind could be made by ministers, because when we come to the powers of judges—as dealt with in the Clauses which we have just passed—their position could not be dealt with except by the Governor acting in his individual judgment. I think broadly that is right. When we are dealing with subordinate magistrates, the question of the increase or withdrawal of their powers would be within the capacity of ministers.

2.59 p.m.

Sir R. CRADDOCK

May I add a word or two to what the learned Solicitor-General has said. Under the present practice, it would probably be the district magistrate who would move in the first instance, and he would send his recommendation to the local government through the commissioner of his division. Unless that procedure is going to be altered, that consultation must always necessarily take place before the case reaches the Minister. All the same, the Clause is very valuable in cases where people might go direct to the Minister and not through the recognised channel with a view to giving or withdrawing powers.

Duchess of ATHOLL

May we know what the present practice is?

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL

I thought that my hon. Friend had just told us exactly what the present practice is.

Duchess of ATHOLL

At the lower end —but I do not think he mentioned what happens at the other end, whether the matter rested ultimately with the Government or with the Home Member or what.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL

Obviously, to-day this would not be a transferred Service and it would rest with the Provincial Government.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 246 ordered to stand part of the Bill.