HC Deb 13 March 1934 vol 287 cc191-3
51. Mr. HAMMERSLEY

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to the case of Mr. D. Clarke, of 11, Mount Street, Stockport, for many years employed as a groundsman at the Manchester High School for Girls, who contributed to the Unemployment Fund, was informed that his employment was non-insurable, subsequently became out of work, has been unable to obtain other employment for over two years, and has never received any assistance from the Unemployment Fund to help to support his wife and family; and whether, as the Ministry of Labour has reaffirmed that Mr. Clarke's former employment is uninsurable, he will take steps to ensure that such border-line cases as this are not treated as uninsurable occupations?

The Minister of LABOUR (Sir Henry Betterton)

As my hon. Friend is aware, from the correspondence which has passed between us, the employment referred to did not enable Mr. Clarke to qualify for unemployment benefit, since it was excepted from the scope of the Unemployment Insurance Scheme as being employment in agriculture. My hon. Friend will also be aware that the question of insuring employment in agriculture is dealt with in the Unemployment Bill which is at present before the House.

Mr. HAMMERSLEY

May I ask whether these very difficult cases of groundsmen employed in urban areas, and classified as agricultural workers, who are unable to obtain employment in those urban areas because of the large amount of existing unemployment, will be dealt with in the new Unemployment Bill?

Sir H. BETTERTON

It is really a legal question as to whether they come within Clause 2 of the Bill, which deals with border-line cases. I will look into that point and let my hon. Friend know what my opinion may be, but ultimately it will be a question for legal decision.

Mr. HAMMERSLEY

May it be understood from that reply that it is the intention of the Government to bring those border-line cases within the scope of the Bill, subject, of course, to an examination of the details in the various cases?

Sir H. BETTERTON

If it is a borderline case, it will come within Clause 2, which is part of the Bill.

Mr. NEIL MACLEAN

As border-line cases of this character, affecting grounds-men who are employed on tennis courts and bowling greens, occur in almost every constituency, will the right hon. Gentleman supply all hon. Members with a copy of the answer which he is going to give to the hon. Member for Stoekport (Mr. Hammersley)?

Sir H. BETTERTON

I am not quite sure whether I understand the hon. Member's question. If this is a borderline case, it will be dealt with under Clause 2 of the Bill, which deals with such cases, but whether it is a borderline case or not is a matter of legal argument.

Mr. MACLEAN

But does not the groundsman's case also include the case of attendants at bowling greens as well?

Sir H. BETTERTON

As to these particular cases, our view is that they are not border-line cases, but that these men should properly be described as engaged in agriculture. If a man does not accept that conclusion, it is open to him to appeal in the manner provided. We have told this man that he can make an appeal.

Mr. MAXTON

Does the Minister say that the definition in the new Bill is to be left in such a way that legal decisions will be required to settle it?

Sir H. BETTERTON

The hon. Member knows as well as anybody else that if he looks at Clause 2 of the Bill he will see what the Bill does.

Mr. LAWSON

May we take it that for these border-line cases special arrangements have been made under Clause 2 for the Minister to deal with them and decide whether they are in or out?

Sir H. BETTERTON

That is also provided in Clause 2.