CLAUSE 12.—(Extension of junctions of milk marketing boards.) (Hansard, 19 June 1934)

§ Mr. ELLIOT
I beg to move, in page 15, line 12, to leave out from "and," to "or," in line 16, and to insert: has been produced in circumstances determined by the Minister or by the board with the object of securing, so far as practicable, that the milk is pure and free from the infection of any disease. This is really a drafting Amendment to ensure that it will be possible for these proposals to be continued, if it can be done, by agreement, and not necessarily by an Order. Owing to a slight mistake in drafting, the Clause as it stands only makes it possible to continue these payments under the Bill if an Order has been made. We think it probable that it will be possible to continue them by arrangement, without an Order.

§ Mr. ELLIOT
I beg to move, in page 15, line 27, at the end, to insert: (2) For the removal of doubts it is hereby declared that any power of the board administering a milk marketing scheme to determine the price at, below or above, which milk produced in the area to which the scheme applies, or any kind, grade, or description of milk so produced may be sold by any registered producer, includes power to determine in relation to milk so produced or any kind, grade, or description of such milk, as the case may be, different prices by reference to the different classes of persons to whom, or purposes for which, it is sold. (3) The board administering any milk marketing scheme may from time to time determine the places or areas at or within which milk produced in the area to which the scheme applies, or any description or quantity of milk so produced, may be sold or offered for sale by any registered producer. (4) Where, in conformity with a milk marketing scheme, any contract whereby a registered producer undertakes to sell, otherwise than to, or through the agency of, the board, any milk produced in the area to which the scheme applies, purports to confer on the board any right to recover from the purchaser the whole or any part of any damages for which the purchaser may be liable under the contract in respect of a breach of warranty on his part, then, without prejudice to the effect of sub section (2) of section seventeen of the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1933, the board may enforce that right against the purchaser, notwithstanding that the board are not parties to the contract and notwithstanding that, as between the board and the purchaser, there is no consideration. (5) The board administering any milk marketing scheme may enter into and carry into effect an agreement with the board administering any other such scheme whereby the first-mentioned board, for such consideration and subject to such conditions as may be specified in the agreement—

(a) undertake that, during a period specified in the agreement, they will exercise their powers in such manner as may be so specified; or

(b) undertake that, during a period specified in the agreement, they will make to the other board payments of such amounts and at such times as may be so specified."
It is only fair to the House to say that one portion at least of this Amendment, that is to say, the new Subsection (3), raises a point of substance. Doubt has been expressed whether the provisions of Section 5 (e) of the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1931, which enables a scheme to provide for the determination from time to time of the prices at which, the regulated product, or any quantity 349 thereof, may be sold by any registered producer, would enable the Milk Marketing Board to determine the price of milk to be sold to schools at a lower figure than the price of liquid milk sold to other consumers. It is the desire of us all that that should be done and, in case there is any doubt about it, we are inserting this Amendment. I have received deputations from the distributive trade, representatives of the co-operative societies, national creamery proprietors and United Dairies and they desire that I should look more closely at this Section, which gave them some misgivings. I gave an undertaking to give consideration to the points that they raised between now and Report and I repeat that assurance here.
The remaining paragraphs of the Amendment deal with a somewhat wider field. They also have been criticised by the distributive trade. They enable a certain amount of rationalisation of the trade to take place so that the product should be consumed as near as possible to the point of production. It is clearly undesirable that agricultural produce, particularly of a perishable kind—and milk of course is highly perishable—should be railed or motored from place to place, thereby incurring perfectly useless transport charges which have in the long run to come out of the pocket of the consumer or the producer. It is highly desirable that those cross-currents of agricultural produce should be reduced to a minimum. I think these powers exist in principle in the 1931 Act, which allowed classes of persons to be prescribed through whom the product might or might not be sold, but it did not cover areas, therefore this makes the rationalising process more practicable and it undoubtedly raises the dangers to which the deputations drew attention. Because of the very fair way in which they put forward their case I am most anxious to do what I can to meet their point and I have undertaken to look into the matter between Committee and Report. I think this power should exist and should be placed upon the Statute Book. If it were possible to ensure that it should not be wantonly or carelessly exercised by the board it would also be a good thing. Using a colloquialism, one of the members of a deputation that I saw to-day said it was most desirable that the board should not throw its weight about under the powers of this 350 Sub-section and I said, if he could draft in Parliamentary language a provision that the board should not throw its weight about, I should have great pleasure in putting it into the Statute. The task, however, baffled us in the time at our disposal. The object that we have in view, namely, that this should not be wantonly applied and should not be used to wreck long established distributive channels or to cut off supplies, is one with which we should all sympathise and which I should certainly do my best in drafting or administering the Act to co operate with in every possible way.

§ Sir J. LAMB
Did any of the distributors throw their weight about?

§ Mr. ELLIOT
I should hesitate to criticise the conduct of deputations which came to me, and I should not wish to imply anything which would be taken as reflecting in any way on the conduct of anyone who came before me, but we have known cases in the past of distributors who did throw their weight, about to a considerable extent, and I am sure a better spirit has come over all of us who are concerned in working out the technique of these very intricate matters. It is true that danger might arise that the board might do something unjust or arbitrary under these powers, but we must trust the board. They must learn to exercise their powers in a just manner. There is machinery whereby, if they exercise their powers unjustly, they can be called in question, and it would be impossible for us, in one or two particular instances, to determine ways in which the board should not be unjust or exercise their powers in a harsh manner. I hope very much, therefore, that the Committee will allow this Amendment to be inserted, because I am sure that with its general power of rationalising distribution we shall all sympathise.

§ Mr. T. WILLIAMS
We welcome the right hon. Gentleman's pronouncement, and in view of his promise to look closely into the matter and all its consequences between now and the Report stage, we prefer to reserve our case until that time. The right hon. Gentleman is aware of what has transpired in Scotland, and he also knows what has transpired with regard to the multiplicity of machinery in the case of sugar.
351 Therefore, we prefer to reserve our observations until the Report stage, by which time we hope the right hon. Gentleman, with the Co-operative Societies and other interests involved, will have been able to find a way out of their difficulties.