HC Deb 27 November 1933 vol 283 cc485-6
4. Sir WILLIAM DAVISON

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the fact that officers of the various Indian services now find it impossible to effect insurances on their pensions, or prospects of pension, he will make a further statement to reassure these officers?

5. Sir ARTHUR MICHAEL SAMUEL

asked the Secretary of State for India if he is now in a position to make any further statement for the reassurance of those officers of the Indian services who have recently been unable to insure their pensions with the various insurance companies?

Sir S. HOARE

I have high authority for saying that Lloyd's and the insurance companies generally do not regard the payment of pensions as a suitable subject for insurance. There is no basis upon which the risk, if there is a, risk, can be actuarially assessed. The fact that there is no limit of time cuts across the principle that, for all forms of insurance except life insurance, there should be a time limit. The principle of average also does not apply, as claims would be either universal or nil. If, therefore, Indian pensions are not insurable, it is, according to information which I have obtained from reliable sources, for exclusively technical reasons which apply generally to all business of this kind, and not because of any particular anxiety about the future Constitution of India.

Sir W. DAVISON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that insurances against insolvency have not been permitted since the Harrison crash in 1924, but that there have been regular insurances of pensions of this kind against repudiation and reduction of pension? Is he aware that I hold in my hand a policy in this regard which was executed only a few weeks ago, but at a higher rate of interest and only for a period of from one to three years?

Sir S. HOARE

My information is that generally that is not the case, but, if the hon. Member has any other information, I shall be glad if he will show it to me. I am assured that, even if it is as he has just stated, the whole world is affected, and not India in particular. No distinction at Lloyd's or at any insurance office, so far as I am aware, is drawn between Indian and other pensions.

Sir W. DAVISON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these pensions were previously insured at the rate of 1 per cent., and that the rate is now 6, 7 or 8 per cent., and only for a period of three years?

Sir S. HOARE

The rates affect the whole world and not specifically Indian pensions. I am told that pensions of this kind have not been insured for a substantial number of years.

Sir A. M. SAMUEL

Does the right hon. Gentleman's original reply to this question mean that the view that I expressed last week on the insurance of Indian pensions, controverting the statement of the hon. Member for South Kensington (Sir W. Davison), is substantially correct?

Sir S. HOARE

The view is correct that no distinction is drawn between pensions connected with India and pensions connected with other countries, or with private firms.

Sir W. DAVISON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the hon. Member for Farnham (Sir A. M. Samuel) said that pensions could not be insured, and that that is not the case I