CLAUSE 76.—(Disability of members of authorities for voting on account of interest in contracts, etc.) (Hansard, 14 November 1933)

§ Mr. ATTLEE
I wish to ask the Minister to explain the scope of this Clause. The particular point with which I am concerned is that of pecuniary interest direct or indirect in any contract or proposed contract. It seems doubtful how far these words carry the matter, and in this connection I refer the right hon. Gentleman to page 26 of the interim report, where it is stated that if disqualification from 804 membership is abolished and disqualification for voting is substituted, certain difficulties indicated previously will disappear. Then there is the proviso: Provided care is taken that the disqualification is not likely to be so widespread as to render the council incapable of effective action. I wish to raise the point as to how this proposal affects the members of co-operative societies. In those cases you have a very widely extended membership, a membership that is open to all, and cases have actually occurred in which there has been a tender to a council for some particular article put in by a co-operative society and all the members of the council were disqualified from voting upon it. In another instance, a committee was considering certain tenders and the tender of the co-operative society was the lowest. The chairman of the committee moved that the lowest tender be accepted, and he was the only member of the committee who did not belong to the co-operative society. One of the other members formally seconded the motion and it was carried, as the chairman was the only person who could vote.
The question thus arises of whether membership of a co-operative society is sufficient to bring a person within the scope of the Clause. The difficulty is not confined to co-operative societies. We have entered on a period of collectivism. Arrangements may be made in a district, for instance, in connection with the supply of milk by a co-operative society as part of a general scheme. You may have regulated trade with regard to some article of food such as potatoes under which all the potatoes would be sold by a board, in which all potato growers would be interested. In a particular area every single member of the rural council might be a member of such a board. When we enter upon an era in which a very large part of the field is being covered by cooperative societies or marketing boards, to which the majority of the people in a district belong, will they not have an indirect interest which would disqualify them under this Clause?
Difficulties, too, may arise with regard to employés in a particular town. Building trade employés, for example, might find it impossible to be on a council. But the particular point which I desire to have made clear is what will be the position of members of co-operative socie 805 ties and marketing boards under the Clause. Would mere membership of such bodies make it impossible for a member of a local authority to vote? I submit that there is a danger that the position indicated in that proviso to which I have already referred, is likely to arise in certain areas owing to this disqualification being so wide. Where practically the whole population belong to a co-operative society the only result of insisting upon this disqualification would be that the general public would be damnified by a council having to accept higher tenders than they might otherwise have obtained. I should like a declaration from the Minister as to his view on this matter, and as to whether he is prepared if necessary to accept an Amendment on Report dealing with the point I have raised.

Sir H. YOUNG
My answer to the hon. Gentleman and my advice is this that it is possible, under the interpretation of Clause 76, Sub-sections (1) and (2, a), that a member of a co-operative society would be included in the scope of the Clause in respect of a contract concluded with that co-operative society. Normally, therefore, such a member would declare his interest, and would not vote on a resolution concerning such a contract. The hon. Gentleman will probably agree that normally that would be the proper course to take. He rightly put to me, however, the question of what would happen in a district where many members of the authority were also members of a co-operative society or of some special hoard, and he suggested the possibility that that might interfere with the business of the council. That case, however, has been foreseen and provided against in Sub-section (8) of the Clause which provides: The county council, as respects a member of a parish council, and the Minister, as respects a member of any other local authority, may, subject to such conditions as the county council or the Minister, as the case may be, may think fit to impose, remove any disability imposed by this section in any case in which the number of members of the local authority so disabled at any one time would he so great a proportion of the whole as to impede the transaction of business, or in any other case in which the county council or the Minister, as the ease may be, are satisfied that it is in the interests of the inhabitants of the area that the disability should be removed. 806 That is a specific provision dealing with the case contemplated by the hon. Gentleman, and I think the declaration which he requires is the declaration which I now give, namely, that it is the intention of the Minister, in the administration of the Clause, to make use of that Sub-section and to remove difficulties in the way of business which might arise in the circumstances which have been indicated.

§ Mr. ATTLEE
The Minister has power, then, to remove any disabilities, but I take it that he would have to act upon a prior application. It would be impossible when certain contracts came up at a local body to get an immediate decision from the Minister. Are we to take it that the Minister would give a decision with regard to certain categories on the application of certain councils I should like a little more light on that point.

Sir H. YOUNG
The conditions under which the Minister may act are indicated in Sub-section (8): In any case in which the number of members of the local authority so disabled at any one time would be so great a proportion of the whole as to impede the transaction of business. It is the actual condition of the council which will enable the Minister to act and therefore he would, in my view, be able to act in anticipation without waiting for an actual case to arise.