HC Deb 08 February 1933 vol 274 cc179-81
21. Mr. LAWSON

asked the Minister of Labour the number of Commissioners appointed to carry out the work of public assistance committees, and the cost to date?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of LABOUR (Mr. R. S. Hudson)

Four Commissioners have been appointed—three for the County of Durham and one for the County Borough of Rotherham—superseding respectively the Public Assistance Authorities for those areas as regards the administration of transitional payments. The estimated cost of administration under the Commissioners for the two areas up to 31st January, including temporary staff taken over by them, was about £11,000, apart from non-recurrent charges amounting to a further £2,250.

Mr. LAWSON

Who has any control over these Commissioners? Has the hon. Member's Department or the Minister any control over them? Can we make any complaints to him and ask him to deal with them?

Mr. HUDSON

The Commissioners stand in relation to my right hon. Friend's Department as the public assistance committees. We have the same control or lack of control over them that we have over the public assistance committees.

Mr. LAWSON

Am I to understand from that statement that a report will be issued of the work of these Commissioners, so that the House will have an opportunity of reviewing their administration?

Mr. HUDSON

I should like notice of that question. Speaking off-hand, the answer is in the negative.

Mr. LAWSON

On a point of Order. As the Minister has refused up to the present time to give any guarantees in regard to this matter, may I ask for your Ruling, Mr. Speaker! The House has voted a certain sum of money for the administration of transitional pay- ments. When that was done it was under the impression that the public assistance committees were going to administer. The public assistance committees can be criticised by the House and their administration reviewed on the appropriate Vote, or by arrangement. May I ask whether it is within the Rules of this House for the proper administration of expenditure that certain gentlemen can be appointed to administer moneys and that the House will have no opportunity of reviewing the results of their administration and its cost?

Mr. McKEAG

May I ask if the numbers of the ordinary staff have been increased since the appointment of the Commissioners?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Lawson) has asked a question, the first part of which appears to me to be more in the nature of an interpretation of the law, and not one for me to decide. I have certainly often heard replies given from the Government Bench that the actual control they have over these Commissioners is similar to that which they have over the public assistance committees. More than that I cannot say. It is really a question of interpretation of the law. As to the latter point, that is a question that might arise upon the Vote, but it would not be for me to decide on it at the present moment.

Mr. LAWSON

When the Commissioners were appointed in certain parts of the country under the Ministry of Health it was understood that the House would have a report, so that an opportunity might be given of reviewing their work. Is there any guarantee that that can be done on the appropriate occasion in the case of these Commissioners?

Mr. SPEAKER

I cannot deal with that now. It would not be relevant for me to do so. I can only say that this question can be raised. The hon. Member may raise this point when it comes before the House, and it will then be for the Chair to decide whether it is in order or not. It is not for me to anticipate at this stage what will happen on that Vote.

Mr. THORNE

Is it not a fact that when Sir Alfred Woodgate was appointed to take the place of the West Ham Board of Guardians an annual report was presented from him and that was liable to be debated in this House?

Mr. HUDSON

If my recollection serves me aright, Sir Alfred Woodgate was not appointed under the Order in Council of October, 1921.

Mr. BATEY

Of the amount of £11,000 mentioned in the reply, will the hon. Member say what was the cost in Rotherham?

Mr. HUDSON

If the hon. Member will put down a question, I shall be very glad to give him an answer.

Mr. McKEAG

Will the hon. Member answer my question, as to whether the numbers of the ordinary staff have been increased since the appointment of the Commissioners?

Mr. HUDSON

I am afraid I shall require notice of that question.