CLAUSE 5.—(Provisions as to interpretation.) (Hansard, 14 June 1932)

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
On this Clause, I want to ask the Minister for an explanation rather than to discuss the actual Amendment in my name.

§ The CHAIRMAN
Then the hon. Member does not propose to move his Amendment?

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
No.

Sir H. YOUNG
If I may say a word in explanation of this Clause, it may save the time of the Committee. It is really a Clause that need not detain the Committee for very long. It deals simply with the interpretation of the phrases used in the Bill. In the first place, it deals with definitions, and the first definition it gives is that of a "contribution half-year." Hitherto, we have had in the Insurance Acts the "contribution year," and now we find it more convenient, purely as a matter of mechanism, to have a "contribution half-year." We have therefore to decide exactly what that is. Then we come to Sub-section (2) which deals with the following matter. It has been found in practice that the existing definition of available for but unable to obtain employment has not properly given effect to the intention of those words and has resulted in anomalies. We have made a new definition in a negative form instead of in a positive form. The substituted form permits of a person being "available for but unable to obtain employment" even though he has obtained a job provided it is not a job from which he derives sub- 354 stantial payment. He may be treated as "available for but unable to obtain employment" while he is following any occupation which does not prevent him from being deemed to be unemployed for the purposes of the Unemployment Insurance Acts. This is really an extension of the class of those who are "available for but unable to obtain employment"— an extension to include persons who are in stop-gap employment earning a small amount and not engaged in regular or substantial employment. It is an extension of leniency, as it were. As regards Sub-section (3), reference is made in certain Insurance Acts to the Government Actuary. Obviously, he is not subject to any statutory definition and has no power to delegate his duties. This Clause will give him power to carry out his duties by deputy and not merely by himself.

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
With regard to the man who does subsidiary employment, I understand that he is covered at the moment very much by the decision under the Unemployment Insurance Acts. That is to say, if he follows the subsidiary employment after working hours and only earns a small amount, he can get his cards franked. Now, I understand, the man may follow employment of a subsidiary character but only for a short period. Is this intended to cover classes of persons who may work in the normal hours? At present, I understand, it covers unemployment through the day, but not in the case of a. person who works through the day, even though he derives no monetary benefit from it. Will this cover a man taking for a short limited period uninsurable work although the work may occupy pretty well his full time? Canvassing, which a man might take on without salary, is an example. 355 Or you may have the case of a man learning motor driving, as under the Ministry of Labour regulations, and not earning a penny, but actually paying. It may occupy three or four weeks at the end of which the man receives no franked cards, although it is for a strictly limited period. Is it intended in a case of that kind to allow him that limited period?

Sir H. YOUNG
I think the case which the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) has in mind is just the case in point. A man in a non-insurable employment, who is not in receipt of substantial remuneration or profit, is not by reason of that employment to be considered to be outside the phrase available for but unable to obtain employment. His hours are irrelevant compared with the fact that he is not deriving substantial remuneration. If he is in insurable employment and is deemed to be unemployed for the purpose of unemployment insurance, he will have no difficulty at all. This is extended to those who are in non-insurable employment and who are not deriving a substantial profit. Members may ask how that is to be decided. It is a question between the man and his society to be decided by the rules of his society.

§ Mr. BUCHANAN
The society will decide in the first case and, if he is not satisfied, he can apply under the rules.

Sir H. YOUNG
Yes.

§ Mr. LOGAN
Suppose there is a question of the bonâ, fides of an individual and the society refuse to admit him, will he have an appeal to the Commissioners to obtain a declaration?

Sir H. YOUNG
I understand that in that case there is an appeal.