HC Deb 09 June 1932 vol 266 cc2175-8
Mr. SPEAKER

All the Amendments which are on the Paper in the names of various hon. Members to Clause 9 are out of order, but I have accepted a manuscript Amendment from the hon. Lady the Member for Dundee (Miss Horsbrugh) to leave out the Clause in order that she may get an explanation as to the meaning of it.

Miss HORSBRUGH

I beg to move, to leave out the Clause.

I do so in order that we may get some explanation as to the wording which to many of us seems very vague. I refer especially to the words goods "exported or shipped as stores." We should like to know if those stores would, in any way, concern fishing vessels and coasting steamers. At present, as hon. Members know, fishing vessels and coasting steamers are not allowed bonded stores as long as they are within home waters or the North Sea. Are these vessels to be able to take on any stores or equipment under the drawback the scheme for which is included in Clause 9? Will the term exported or shipped as stores include also stores taken on by a ship going to a foreign port and taking on bonded stores under seal? If the ship were to take on stores such as rope for equipment, would it be allowed to use that rope before it is beyond the boundary of British waters? We believe that, unless these words are very carefully defined, this scheme of draw-back will militate against the trade in our home ports. It has been suggested that a British ship, in order to get the value of the draw-back on such equipment as rope, would have to buy British rope from a foreign port, because that rope had been exported under a draw-back and could then be bought under the drawback from that foreign port; while the foreign ship would buy stores under the draw-back in the home port. We should like to get, if possible, a definite statement as to what ship's stores will mean. We know that in a registered shipyard all the equipment will be put into the vessel. Will duty have to be paid on that equipment when it is taken off, or can such things as rope be taken as ship's stores? We are asking for this explanation because it will make a very great difference to many trades in this country, including the rope trade and the shipping industry, which are looking round to see whether they will have to buy their equipment in foreign ports if they are to be saved this extra expense. It has been made quite clear that the draw-back scheme will be extensively used, and we wish to know whether these articles will be regarded as bonded stores or whether they will be taken on in the ordinary way by the ship as stores.

Captain BARTON

I beg to second the Amendment.

Mr. HORE-BELISHA

One understands and respects the interest of the hon. Lady in this matter, representing, as she does, a constituency in which rope is made, and I will endeavour to satisfy her on the points which she has raised, or, at any rate, to answer her questions. The hon. Lady's first question was as to the definition of stores. Stores cover any goods or articles for use in a ship which are not actually fitted or built into the ship. I hope that the hon. Lady will be satisfied with that definition, because I think it covers completely the point raised in one of the Amendments that she has on the Paper relating to equipment.

The second point on which my hon. Friend has some doubt is as to whether this Clause, granting a draw-back, will apply to ships engaged in the coasting trade and in the fishing trade. In this case I cannot, I am afraid, give her an answer which will be agreeable to her. When a ship "goes foreign," as the saying is, it goes outside the jurisdiction of the country, and it is allowed to take on its voyage dutiable goods. When the ship comes into port, those goods—wines, spirits, tea, or whatever they may be— are sealed by the Customs official, and a close watch is kept upon those stores. That procedure could not, of course, be followed in the coasting trade or the fishing trade. If any vessels in those trades were allowed to take on board dutiable articles, it would necessitate increasing the Customs staff to such proportions as would enable them to make an accurate investigation of what each ship contained. The hon. Lady will, I hope, see that that would be quite impossible, and we do not intend to change the normal procedure in that respect. The home coasting trade is a trade completely within the jurisdiction of this country; indeed, it is a form of transport and the fishing industry is, similarly, conducted within the jurisdiction of this country. Where deep sea fishing is concerned, a vessel is considered to be "going foreign," and has the benefit of the draw-back. I think that I have answered all the questions that my hon. Friend has put to me. She has a partial satisfaction in receiving a satisfactory answer to her first question, and a partial dissatisfaction in the exclusion from draw-back of fishing and coasting vessels.

Commander MARSDEN

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary one question? Can a ship broach bonded stores, with the permission of the Customs, and draw out stores for the purpose of making good defects while she is in port?

Mr. HORE-BELISHA

The answer to that question is that the dutiable stores are either sealed, where that is appropriate, or an inventory is taken of them, and an account has to be rendered at the request of the Customs.

Commander MARSDEN

At the present time, in certain circumstances, permission may be obtained from the Customs to open the seals and extract dutiable stores which are on board. If the Board of Trade adhere to the regulations to which the Parliamentary Secretary has just referred, it will merely mean that ships can have on board stores which they might desire to use to make good some defect, but which they are unable to touch until they are outside territorial waters. What would actually happen would be that the shipowners would have on board, consigned under a bill of lading to their agents at the first foreign port, stores which, when the ship arrives at that port, they can use, and it seems to me to be rather absurd that all this procedure should be gone through, making no difference whatsoever to the Government with respect to revenue, in order to obtain, once the ship has passed out of territorial waters, that which might be urgently needed in the home port to make good defects.

Mr. HORE-BELISHA

I can only reply to my hon. and gallant Friend by the leave of the House. Ships are only allowed to broach sufficient stores for immediate use.

Miss HORSBRUGH

In view of the Parliamentary Secretary's explanation, I beg to ask leave to withdraw my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.