HC Deb 06 June 1932 vol 266 cc1659-61
Sir H. YOUNG

I beg to move, in page 41, line 36, to leave out the words "of the authority."

This Amendment and the following Amendment are drafting Amendments consequential on the Amendment made to Clause 6 in Committee requiring all Resolutions to be approved by the Minister.

Marquess of HARTINGTON

I should like to ask how in the wide world the Minister reconciles this Clause with the very definite and categorical assurances on which he secured the unopposed Second Reading of the Bill from the House, when he said: In the second place, this is a Bill which is not to promote bureaucracy, but to promote liberty. Consequently, this is not a Bill of compulsion, but one of permission. It is a Bill simply to put powers which the people want into their hands to use as and when they desire to use them. It is not a Bill to force action down the throats of the local authorities."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd February, 1932; col. 41, Vol. 261.] We have never had a full House on this Bill since my right hon. Friend made his speech on the Second Reading. Hon. Members think, and think rightly, that this is a technical subject, and they hesitate either to take part in our Debates on the Bill or even to come into the House; but I should like to ask my right hon. Friend, on this Amendment, how he reconciles these words, which deceive—

Sir S. CR1PPS

On a point of Order. Is it in order for the Noble Lord to discuss the Clause on this Amendment?

Mr. SPEAKER

I should say not, but I was trying to understand what the Noble Lord was discussing.

Marquess of HARTINGTON

I have every confidence, Sir, that you will be able to use your powers without assistance from the hon. and learned Member for East Bristol (Sir S. Cripps). On the question of the Amendment, I was asking how the Minister can reconcile his speech on the Second Reading with either the Clause or any Amendment thereto which, for from making the Bill permissive, lays it down definitely that he shall have power to require any local authority to prepare a plan, or if it does not do so, to prepare a plan for it and to charge it with the expense. That cannot be described as purely permissive, by any stretch of the imagination, and it is on those terms and on those terms alone that my right hon. Friend secured the Second Reading of the Bill.

Mr. M. BEAUMONT

I desire to associate myself with the remarks of my Noble Friend the Member for West Derbyshire (Marquess of Hartington). If the House would study the last Amendment to this Clause, it would see that the Minister is required to furnish a copy of the report made to him, and—

Sir S. CRIPPS

That Amendment has not yet been moved.

Mr. BEAUMONT

The hon. and learned Member opposite, who evidently fancies himself as a proper and able person to conduct these Debates, says that that Amendment has not been moved, but I understand that the Minister mentioned these three Amendments together. If that is not so, I will postpone my remarks on the point.

Mr. SPEAKER

The Amendments should be disposed of one at a time.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In page 41, line 37, at the end, insert the words: passed by the authority and approved by the Minister."—[Sir H. Young.]

Sir H. YOUNG

I beg to move, in page 42, line 34, at the end, to insert the words: (5) The Minister shall furnish a copy of the report made to him by the person who holds a local inquiry directed by this Section to every authority concerned and, on payment of such fee as may be fixed by the Minister, to any person interested.

Mr. M. BEAUMONT

With reference to this Amendment, and with the permission of the hon. and learned Member for East Bristol (Sir S. Cripps)—

Sir S. CRIPPS

Granted.

Mr. BEAUMONT

—I should like to ask how the Minister reconciles this Amendment with the declaration which was read out by my Noble Friend just now.

Sir H. YOUNG

Perhaps I may assist my hon. Friend and bring his speech into order by pointing out that this Amendment has nothing to do with the previous Amendment. It carries out a pledge made in Committee to furnish the report made on any local inquiry held as a preliminary to default proceedings. It therefore covers a very narrow point and carries out the undertaking to publish the report.

Marquess of HARTINGTON

Can publication of these reports be carried out without expense, and therefore would it not increase the charge?

Amendment agreed to.