HC Deb 23 September 1931 vol 256 cc1638-40
34. Mr. FREEMAN

asked the Postmaster-General the total amount paid by the British Government to the Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Company, Limited, and its subsidiary lines for the carriage of mails for 1930?

The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Ormsby-Gore)

The amount paid to the Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Company for the conveyance of mails under contract between Great Britain, India, China and Australia is £295,000 per annum. In 1930 there was also a payment of about £49,000 for extra services not covered by the contract.

Mr. FREEMAN

In view of the large sums paid by His Majesty's Government to this company, will the right hon. Gentleman stipulate in any further contracts that no lower standard of wages shall be paid to able-bodied seamen than is paid to British workers?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I do not quite know what to gather from the hon. Member's question. If his suggestion is that the same rates should be paid to lascars as are paid to Europeans, I do not think I can give him an affirmative answer.

Mr. FREEMAN

My suggestion is that no lower standard than is paid to British workmen should be paid, in view of the fact that they are carrying British mails.

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I cannot give that undertaking.

Mr. MACLEAN

Is it not the case that, where a Government contract is entered into, certain conditions are laid down with regard both to fair wages and to other things; and will not the right hon. Gentleman see that inquiries are made to find out whether these things are being done in the case of this company?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I must ask the hon. Gentleman to await the reply to the next question, which deals more specifically with that point, but I want to make it quite clear that the case of mail contracts is on a slightly different footing from certain other cases.

Mr. MACLEAN

Can the right hon. Gentleman say where the difference lies between a contract for mails and any other contract entered into by the British Government?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

Perhaps the hon. Member will await the next answer.

35. Mr. FREEMAN

asked the Postmaster-General whether the Fair Wage Clause operates in all contracts between His Majesty's Government and the Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Company, Limited, and its subsidiary companies; what is the number and proportion of lascars employed by them during 1930; and the average monthly wage paid to each class of sailors and firemen employed in English currency?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

In reply to the first part of the hon. Member's question, the Fair Wages Resolution has never been considered applicable to contracts with steamship companies for the conveyance of mails, nor do I think it practicable to apply it to them. Steamship companies, like railway companies, are mainly engaged in large commercial operations, and the conveyance of mails is no more than an incidental part of the general business of transport on which their labour is employed. As regards the second part of the question, I regret that I have no information.

Mr. FREEMAN

Is it the case that the average wages paid to these lascars amount to £1 7s. 6d. per month; and will not the right hon. Gentleman consider inserting a Fair Wages Clause in all future contracts?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

I cannot give that undertaking, and I am not aware whether the figures quoted lay the hon. Member are correct or not; but I think it is very undesirable to attempt to enforce the employment of European labour in the Red Sea during the summer months.

HON. MEMBERS

Nonsense!

Mr. SHINWELL

In view of the difficulty of applying the Fair Wages Clause to lascars, will the right hon. Gentleman consider advising the Government to insert a Clause in the conditions of contract stipulating that none but British seamen should be employed; and is he aware that there is no difficulty in employing British seamen in the Red Sea?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

If the hon. Gentleman had been in the Red Sea as often as I have—[Interruption.]

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

It is an insult to British seamen.

Commander O. LOCKER-LAMPSON

Could not Mr. Gandhi look after that matter?

Mr. MACLEAN

rose

HON. MEMBERS

Order!

Mr. MACLEAN

I understood, Mr. Speaker, that you resumed your seat to allow me to put a supplementary question.

Mr. SPEAKER

I did not do anything of the kind.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

It is an insult to British seamen—[Interruption]—and nonsense.