HC Deb 29 April 1931 vol 251 cc1619-21
35. Mr. FREEMAN

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is aware that, to enable wagons and lorries to convey children for Sunday school treats and similar functions, a special road-service licence, involving an expenditure of £5 or £6 per lorry, must be first obtained; that in many cases suitable train services do not exist to reach the fields where such functions are normally held, and no ordinary licensed vehicle is available except at heavy expenditure on Saturdays and Bank Holidays for such purposes: and whether he will consider granting special facilities to meet this difficulty?

The MINISTER of TRANSPORT (Mr. Herbert Morrison)

The matter is governed by Section 61 (3) of the Road Traffic Act, 1930, and the question involved is not the payment of a fee for a licence as a public service vehicle, but the fact that vehicles of the lorry type cannot conform with the conditions prescribed for vehicles used for the conveyance of passengers. The use of an ordinary lorry, especially is fitted with loose chairs or forms, for carrying a considerable number of passengers, is dangerous and undesirable on other grounds, and the provisions of the Sec- tion referred to are aimed at preventing the use of such a vehicle for the conveyance of eight or more passengers, except in the special case where the vehicle is being used to convey workpeople in the course of, or to or from, their employment. I may add that these provisions are based on the recommendations of a Departmental Committee which examined very carefully the whole question of the use of public service vehicles, they were included in the Draft Road Traffic Bill which was circulated for discussion in 1927, and were submitted to the Royal Commission on Transport and accepted by them.

Mr. FREEMAN

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of making some amendment of these Orders in view of the hardship to the children and people who like to take advantage of these lorries and wagons?

Mr. MORRISON

That course of action cannot be taken because the provision is statutory, and this is the form in which it passed the House of Commons. I have no power to modify the law.

Miss PICTON-TURBERVILL

Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that this is a hardship on the children throughout the whole country, and cannot he find some way out of the difficulty?

Mr. MORRISON

I appreciate the position of hon. Members. I have recollections of my own Sunday school treats, but really one must take into consideration not only the pleasure of the children but the safety of the children travelling in such vehicles. There is really an element of danger to a large number of children who travel in these lorries, possibly sitting on loose seals or loose forms. I have the greatest sympathy with the Sunday school aspect of the matter, but I must also take into account, not only the pleasure of the children, but their safety.

Mr. FREEMAN

Has the Minister of Transport had experience of any serious accidents arising in these cases?

Mr. MORRISON

There have been accidents to vehicles of this kind, but I must remind hon. Members that the House of Commons has passed this law. This matter was, in fact, raised in Committee upstairs, and it is no good blaming me. Parliament must take the responsibility for what has been done. I take responsibility for the advice which I gave to Parliament.

Mr. FREEMAN

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider amending legislation?

Sir NAIRNE STEWART SANDEMAN

Can the right hon. Gentleman not do something in this matter, because it means that a whole lot of cricket matches where people cannot afford to travel from one place to another eight or nine miles away are going to be stopped.

Mr. MORRISON

From the cricket match point of view, I do not think the hardship is so great. If it is a question of a vehicle carrying less than eight persons, the prohibition does not apply—[Interruption.] I assume that three out of the 11 would get there by some other means, but I appreciate the Sunday school point of view.

Vice-Admiral TAYLOR

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider some amendment to enable these teams to go to cricket and football matches and so on?

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