§ 84. Brigadier-General CLIFTON BROWNasked the Minister of Health whether he consulted the British Dairy Farmers' Association before issuing the circular which requires certified and grade A (T T) herds to be completely isolated from all other cattle; and what was their opinion?
§ Mr. GREENWOODYes, Sir. The matter was discussed with representatives of the Association, who stated that it was not practicable at their show to make the arrangements hitherto required by my Department as essential for the separation of tested and untested animals. As it appeared that similar difficulties existed at other shows, I felt that it would be inconsistent with the provisions of the Special Designations Order of 1923 to allow the exhibition of tested animals at shows at which untested animals were also exhibited, and I accordingly issued the circular referred to in the question.
Brigadier-General BROWNIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the secretary of this association—I have his letter in my hand—denies that the Ministry consulted them at all, and says that their opinion is absolutely contrary to what the right hon. Gentleman has just said; and will the right hon. Gentleman take more care in his answers to give the truth, instead of—
§ Mr. GREENWOODIf the hon. Member cares to believe the gentleman from whom he has received that letter, I have no more to say.
Brigadier-General BROWNSurely the secretary of the association, writing officially for his council, ought to be believed. I telephoned again to him yesterday, and he told me that it was so, and that I was at liberty to say what I liked about it.
§ Mr. GREENWOODI can only say that it is not customary for a Minister of the Crown deliberately to give false information.
Brigadier-General BROWNWill the Minister look into this matter?—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"] I ask the right hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"]—if he will look into this matter? [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"]. Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly look into this matter?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThere does not appear to be anything to withdraw.
Brigadier-General BROWNMay I ask if this may be investigated by the Minister? [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"] If he finds that I am wrong, I will willingly apologise. [Interruption.] But it was not. A false answer!
Earl WINTERTONMay I ask whether, in view of the importance of this matter, the right hon. Gentleman will have a copy of the Order placed in the Library; and whether his attention has been called to the fact that this Order is likely to reduce the production of the milk in question, which is already too little for the requirements of the country.
§ Mr. GREENWOODI do not accept the latter part of what is said by the Noble Lord, but I will certainly have a copy of the Order put in the Library.
§ Sir ARTHUR STEEL-MAITLANDMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he could not look into this matter again and give the result of his inquiries to the House in so far as it appears that there is a perfectly unintentional but at the same time a genuine misunderstanding with regard to the matter? It is one of very great importance.
§ Mr. GREENWOODI cannot undertake to discuss this matter. I have said that we consulted representatives of that association. If my word is challenged, I have nothing more to say.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI am quite certain that no Member desires to challenge the good faith of the right hon. Gentleman and nobody wishes to challenge the good faith of the secretary. Can the right hon. Gentleman say who were the members of the Association who were consulted? We could then find out whether they were properly authorised by the Association to speak in its name.
§ Mr. GREENWOODThe right hon. Gentleman may take it that when I say representatives of the Association I mean people who are qualified to speak for it. [HON. MEMBERS: "Who are they?"] They were representatives of the Association.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI quite understand that the right hon. Gentleman has not got the names with him, but does he see any objection to supplying their names, so that we may have this matter cleared up?
§ Mr. GREENWOODThis is most unusual. I recognise that the right hon. Gentleman is making no imputation on my good faith, but he is impugning the accuracy of my statement, and I resent it.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI really hope that the right hon. Gentleman will not make a personal matter of this, as there is obviously some misunderstanding. He believes that he has consulted authorised spokesmen of the Association. The secretary of the Association says that they have not been consulted. Is there any objection to his supplying the names of the people whom he consulted? [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer!"]
§ Mr. SPEAKERI really think there is some misunderstanding, I did not understand the hon. and gallant Member for Newbury (Brigadier-General Brown) to accuse the right hon. Gentleman of deliberately making a false statement. [HON. MEMBERS: "He did."] That is where the misunderstanding is. If he had done so, he would have been out of order in making that statement, and I should have called him to order immediately, but he accused the right hon. Gentleman of giving information which was not accurate, apparently without any knowledge of having done so.