§ Sir AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN(by Private Notice) asked the Prime Minister whether the Indian Statutory Commission will be represented at the Conference on Indian Government.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThis question and those involved in it have been exhaustively considered by the Government in consultation with the Indian Government. The Statutory Commission has performed its task with a distinction which will secure for its report a permanent place in our official political literature and has presented its findings to Parliament. When the Conference we are now contemplating was proposed by the Chairman of the Commission with the consent of his colleagues, the Government alone was to have taken upon itself the burden of negotiations. We have widened this so that Parliament in its varied composition might be represented. There the Government is certain it would be advisable to stop, and not add another section of delegates to the representation announced yesterday. The Government is confident that the representatives to be selected will be able to get from 497 the Conference the fullest examination of every proposal brought before it, and every opportunity will be taken—by the Government, of course—to secure that the most expert and well-informed advice, wherever it is to be found, will be available both for the Government and the Parliamentary group of representatives. The Government is convinced that a departure from this decision will not ease the task nor promote the success of the Conference.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI am not sure if I understood the right hon. Gentleman correctly or not, but I hope that I have. Am I right in thinking that, while he does not propose to make the Chairman or any member of the Statutory Commission a member of this Conference, he does propose that the services of the Chairman should, in some capacity, he made available to the members of the Conference during the sittings of the Conference, so that if the Conference wants a full explanation of the report or of the arguments to be submitted, the Chairman, as the most authorised spokesman for the Commission, may be present to give his assistance to the Conference?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWhat I say is, that the advice of any member of this Commission, the Chairman or otherwise, and anyone else with authoritative information and experience which will enable his advice to be of value will be made available to the representatives of Parliament and to the Government as well.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINThat, of course, does not meet my point. [Interruption.] This is a matter which is so important that I hope the House will realise that I must make my point quite clear to the right hon. Gentleman in order that we may not differ for want of understanding. My point is, that the services of the Chairman of the Commission should be available, not to this or to that individual, not to the British delegates or to the Government only, but should be available to the Conference during the sittings of the Conference. If the right hon. Gentleman can say that he will be prepared to make an arrangement which makes it possible for the Chairman of the Commission to be present in the Conference and his ser- 498 vices to be available at any moment to the Conference, I shall, of course, be content.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI understood from the Prime Minister—in fact, I had the same understanding of the answer as that which my right hon. Friend expressed—that the Government left it open to summon anybody who bad expert knowledge of the matters that were to be considered by the Conference, to summon them to aid the Conference in coming to a decision. I would therefore ask him whether he will not close his mind, at any rate, to the importance of having those who have examined this matter closely for two years with the full authority of Parliament, at the request of Parliament—whether he will not close his mind to the question of summoning their aid to an examination of this very great problem? I understand that the Indian Legislature will probably be represented there. Why should not the British Parliament be represented by those who were unanimously chosen by both Houses to examine this problem on our behalf?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat raises a totally different point. What I say here, and what I indicated yesterday, was that, so far as delegates were concerned, there will be the Parliamentary delegates and there will be the Government representatives. They will have those rights about which my right hon. Friend asked me yesterday, they and they only. Let us be clear about that. If advice is required, and if the Conference wants advice and the Conference asks for it, it will get it. If the British delegates want advice, they will get it. How it is to be provided is a matter, I must confess, of which I have not had time to go into the details—the Conference will not meet until November, after the Imperial Conference—but the one thing I want to make perfectly clear to the House is that the Government have come to a very definite decision that it will not be possible to have other categories of delegates than those mentioned yesterday and again to-day for consultation and advice as the Conference or its relegates require.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI cannot say that the right hon. Gentleman's answer is satisfactory, but I am most anxious to avoid any serious difference of opinion 499 arising on a matter of such grave importance. Will the right hon. Gentleman indicate that if any of the delegations in the Conference desire the presence oi members of the Commission in the Conference to assist them those members shall, on that request, have a place made for them during the sittings of the Conference? [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] Not as members, I do not say as members of the Conference. The right hon. Gentleman says that he cannot allow members, but will he make their services available within the Conference? Of course, it will be wholly unsatisfactory if we are to be told that we may meet privately with the Chairman or with the members of the Statutory Commission. What we desire is that their services shall be available to the Conference as a whole and in the Conference, if so asked by any of the delegates to it.
§ The PRIME MINISTERIt is perfectly obvious that I am not going to say yes or no to a form of words which I, have not seen, so that when time elapses there is a dispute between the right hon. Gentleman and myself as to what he meant. I am not going a hairbreadth over the considered statement I have made now. If there are further points to be cleared up, would it not be better to put them in the usual way, and in such a form that I know precisely what is asked?
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI am really in a position of great difficulty. The Conference is convened to meet before the House will meet again. [HON MEMBERS: "No."] The date publicly announced is 20th October.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNo, that is not the case. 20th October is the date that has been mentioned as the date when the Indian delegates might arrive in this country, but, at the same time, it was stated that the Conference itself would begin its work after the Imperial Conference had finished its work.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINMay I ask you, Mr. Speaker, on a point of Order, so that I may consider my position, and what course to take, whether if I press the matter no further at this moment, I may make a Motion to-morrow if I think it necessary then to do so, which, but 500 for the particular business put down for to-day, I should ask your leave, and the leave of the House, to make now, namely, a Motion to adjourn the House to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance? I understand that this being the last day of Supply, such a Motion is on this day, almost alone of Parliamentary days, an impossibility. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] Yes, it is an impossibility; it is forbidden by the Rule. In those circumstances, it would seem. I venture to submit, that the Rule that these urgent matters must be submitted immediately they arise, if they are to come under the Rule at all, will be complied with if I raise the matter to-morrow, which is the first opportunity on which I could do it. All that I want at present for my guidance is the assurance that I could move the Adjournment of the House to-morrow, if nothing has passed in the interval which relieves me of that necessity.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe right hon. Gentleman has asked me a point of Order. He appreciates the fact that under Standing Order 15, this being the last day of Supply, it precludes him from moving a Motion for the Adjournment on a definite matter of urgency. He asks me whether, in those circumstances, I would be prepared to accept a Motion of that sort to-morrow. I understand that that is the question he put to me. I believe that course has been taken in the past, although it does seem to me that it conflicts with the actual wording of Standing Order 10, which, obviously, means that the matter must be raised at the earliest possible moment.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINAt the earliest possible moment.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIn the circumstances, I do not quite understand why the right hon. Gentleman should not raise the matter on the Appropriation Bill.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINI will certainly, of course, consider whether it would be desirable. It may be that it would not be necessary for me to raise it at all. I still hope that that may be the case. I will certainly consider the possibility of raising it on the Appropriation Bill, but, of course, I cannot thereon take a decision of the House, and what I should wish is an expression of the free opinion of the 501 House on a matter in which, above all others, the House should act as a council of State, because it is one of the gravest national problems.
Mr. MACLEANOn a point of Order. Is it in order to raise, as a matter of urgency, a question which will not arise until November?
§ Mr. SPEAKERI do not think that that would affect my decision, because this is the last occasion before the House rises on which the matter could be raised, but the right hon. Gentleman has told me it may be that he may not wish to raise it to-morrow, and in that case I could hardly give an answer now as to whether I would allow a Motion for the Adjournment to-morrow.
§ Sir A. CHAMBERLAINThe urgent and definite question which I should have asked leave to discuss is the refusal of the Government to invite the chairman of the Indian Statutory Commission to take part in the Conference. The right hon. Gentleman has used words which, at any rate, leave a possible hope that he may still make arrangements for him to take part in the Conference. If the right hon. Gentleman says that he is not prepared to do that, then I do ask that I may have the opportunity to-morrow—that is the earliest possible moment—to call attention to the refusal of the Government.
§ The PRIME MINISTERMay I call your attention to the fact, Mr. Speaker, that the complaint must be a specific one, and there are no two Members of this House at the present moment who would be able, I submit with great respect to you, to guide you as to what is the meaning of "take part in the Conference."
§ Mr. W. J. BROWNI want to ask the Prime Minister a question.
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe have not decided the point of Order yet. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the question as to whether the Motion is put off till to-morrow will not prejudice me in coming to a decision. I shall be prepared to consider the question of a Motion to-morrow on its merits.
§ Mr. W. J. BROWNIn view of the Government decision that Parliament should be represented at the Conference 502 apart from the Government, I desire to ask the Prime Minister whether in the selection of the Parliamentary team to take part in the Conference, he will take steps to ensure that the point of view which is held by those who sit upon these benches, and which differs fundamentally from the point of view of His Majesty's Government, will be represented in the selection of Parliamentary delegates to the Conference?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe Government represent the point of view of those who sit on these benches.
§ Mr. THURTLEArising out of the earlier question and answer, may I ask the Prime Minister whether he is aware—whether this House likes it or not, however unfortunate the fact may be—that the admission of the chairman of the Statutory Commission to this round table Conference—
§ Mr. SPEAKERWe cannot anticipate the debate on the Adjournment of the House to-morrow.
§ Mr. THURTLEMay I submit this point? There were questions and answers across the Floor of the House regarding the admission of the chairman of the Statutory Commission to the round table Conference, and I was about to put a supplementary question on that matter, when the point of Order arose as to the Adjournment of the House. Now that this point has been disposed of, may I put the supplementary question regarding this urgent matter?
Mr. MACLEANThe notice that has been given by the right hon. Member for West Birmingham (Sir A. Chamberlain) of an urgency Motion—a hypothetical Motion—to-morrow, is really not before this House to-day.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is exactly what I pointed out to the hon. Member.
§ Mr. SPEAKERClearly this matter must come to an end now.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf the hon. Member has a definite point of Order, I shall be glad to hear it.
Mr. MACLEANI have a definite point of Order. What I said just now was merely a preliminary. The suggested notice of Motion by the right hon. Member for West Birmingham for to-morrow has obscured everything that was before the House at the moment. There are other Members who desire to address questions to the Prime Minister relative to the setting up of this Commission, and the suggested urgency Motion has brushed out of discussion altogether those questions which we were going to put. I am putting it to you, Mr. Speaker, as the custodian of the privileges of Members of this House, that those who were precluded from putting these points because of the Motion by the right hon. Gentleman, should be allowed to put them until satisfaction is given.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe question put to me by the right hon. Member for West Birmingham (Sir A. Chamberlain) was submitted to me as a Private Notice question. I cannot allow supplementary questions to go on the whole afternoon.
§ Mr. MARLEYI want to submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that when the Prime Minister made his reply with regard to setting up the Conference, I desired to put a supplementary question to him, but was prevented from doing so by the point of Order raised by the right hon. Member for West Birmingham (Sir A. Chamberlain). May I now put the supplementary question which I desired to put to the Prime Minister?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe matter is now closed.
§ Mr. HARDIEIf it had been definitely stated that the matter was to be raised to-morrow, I could have understood not allowing more supplementary questions, but since the right hon. Gentleman says he may not raise it, there is a doubt.
§ Mr. WISEArising out of the point of Order put by the right hon. Member for West Birmingham (Sir A. Chamberlain) in regard to the emergency Motion for to-morrow, I understand that he desires to raise the question of the composition of the British delegation in one respect. Will it be possible for the Motion to be so drawn so that other criticism equally urgent in regard to the composition of the delegation may also be discussed? 504 If the right hon. Gentleman's Motion is urgent and of public importance, I submit that similar matters are of equal urgency and importance and that they might be covered by drawing the Resolution sufficiently wide to enable them to be discussed.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI do not think the hon. Member really understands the situation. The Resolution that may be submitted to-morrow must conform to Standing Order No. 10. I can only consider it under that Standing Order. I cannot discuss now what may be or may not be included in that Motion. I will, however, consider on its merits any Motion that may be submitted to me tomorrow for the Adjournment of the House.
§ Mr. WISEAm I to understand that it will be within the competence of hon. Members on these benches to put to you a Resolution of urgency for discussion to-morrow if we desire to do so by covering a broader aspect of the question of which the right hon. Gentleman proposes to raise another aspect.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is quite at liberty to submit to me a Motion for the Adjournment of the House, and it is for me to consider whether I can accept it or not.