§ Amendment made: In page 19, line 2, leave out the word "public."—[Mr. Herbert Morrison.]
695§ Major HILLSI beg to move, in page 19, line, 5, at the end, to insert the words:
(b) in the case of a motor tractor the weight of which unladen exceeds four tons and a half, but does not exceed seven tons and a quarter, two.This Amendmuent is of very important commercial value. The House will see that the Clause divides tractors into three classes. First of all there is the heavy locomotive or light locomotive, which may carry three trailers. The second class consists of the motor tractor which may carry one trailer loaded and two unladen; and the third class is the motor car which can carry only one. I suggest that there ought to be another class inserted for the tractor that is smaller than a heavy or light locomotive but heavier than a motor tractor. The weight which I suggest is exceeding 4½ tons but not exceeding 7¼ tons, and I suggest that the tractor should be allowed to draw two trailers. I know the objection to trailers. No one can go on to the road without realising that trailers ought not to be permitted except for good commercial reasons. But I am told that the class of tractor to which I have referred is being built in increasing numbers, and that it performs a very necessary work in transport. I am told that these tractors are very useful because they are less cumbrous than the heavy or light locomotive and have a higher power than the motor tractor. I believe that the Minister received a deputation on the subject a short time ago. I do not know the result, but I am certain that he has given fair consideration to the case that was put. Unless some intermediate class of this sort is permitted, I believe there would be a restriction on transport. I suggest that we ought to authorise this middle-weight tractor.
§ Mr. HERBERT MORRISONThis point was raised both in another place and in Standing Committee, and without prejudice to the conclusions to which I should come, I did promise to give the matter consideration. In fact I have done so and Lord Ponsonby received a deputation which was, I believe, headed by the hon. Baronet the Member for Barnstaple (Sir B. Peto). We have very carefully considered the point, and I agree that to a certain extent the criticisms made by my Noble Friend Lord 696 Russell on this proposal as put forward in another place have been taken into consideration in the new draft of the Amendment. Nevertheless, I feel that the House ought not to make the change that is proposed. We must be cautious in dealing with trailer vehicles, particularly if the drawing vehicle is not a vehicle of real substance which can hold a load behind it on hills. I cannot see my way to accept the Amendment. The combination of a vehicle with two trailers, in my judgment, is not particularly desirable in any circumstances, and it should be limited in any case to the heaviest types of drawing vehicles, that is to locomotives.
6.0 p.m.
There have been very serious accidents owing to a line of laden trailers getting out of control on down gradients. One particular case was recently brought to the notice of the Department. The tractor drawing more than one trailer should be discouraged rather than encouraged. In any case it should be limited to those drawn by locomotives which, owing to their weight, are more likely to be able to control more than one trailer. It was argued by the deputation that in the analogy between this and the light locomotive we may not be quite consistent. It may be a concession if I intimate that, should I make any alteration under the power of regulation which I shall have under the Bill, it will be rather to reduce by regulation the number of trailers to be drawn by a light locomotive from three to two. If that is done, I think it will be logical, and it is probable that I shall take that action. It is necessary that we should exercise very great care as regards the use of vehicles with trailers upon the road and knowing the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to be one of the most reasonable Members of the House I hope that, in view of what I have said, he will withdraw his Amendment.
§ Major HILLSWhile thanking the right hon. Gentleman for the compliment I do not know that I quite agree with all that he has said.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYAlthough I am very glad to hear my right hon. Friend the Minister resisting this Amendment some of his concluding remarks were extremely alarming, and I would ask him, before he considers alter- 697 ing the regulations dealing with trailers, to take into consideration the case of a certain class who have always been sympathetically treated by this House, and, I think, deservedly so, namely, the travelling showmen. They are small business men and they have suffered very much recently in their business owing to changes in the public taste and the growth of other forms of amusement. Nevertheless they still bring a great deal of pleasure to dwellers in many of the out-of-the-way places in the country, and I hope that my right hon. Friend will not allow himself to be persuaded to tighten up these regulations in such a way as to hit men of this class. They are most careful and considerate drivers. Most of them have practically spent their lives on the road, and I do not think that they can be accused of dangerous driving. The Minister of Transport under the last Government was convinced of their bona fides. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman has been interviewed on their behalf and he knows what a respectable and fine lot of men they are. I hope that my right hon. Friend the present Minister will be very careful and will not put any restrictions on the use of trailers which will affect them.
My right hon. Friend will forgive me for going into this matter because he was not in the House during the last Parliament when we gained a certain small concession for these men. They use a special type of locomotive which is classed as a heavy locomotive—I think there are also some which are light locomotives—and this locomotive is also used for driving roundabouts and other amusements of that kind. On the road they move very slowly. They are not ordinary road users. They are not people who make their living merely by travelling on the road. They move once or twice in a fortnight or a month from one fair ground to another, and they are not like common carriers who cover thousands of miles in the course of a month. Their whole capital, their whole fortune is embarked in these little caravans, and they are the last people who wish to cause accidents on the road, and I defy anyone who is driving on the road constantly to say that they are not the most courteous and considerate of road-users. They are the last people to be accused of "road-hogging." I wish my right 698 hon. Friend to appreciate their position because in making these regulations he may be thinking only of common carriers who make their living by carrying goods—great, powerful, wealthy well-insured concerns, often driving their employés very hard and making them perform long journeys within certain scheduled times. The Minister, very rightly, considers the precautions which must be taken so that the roads will not be made unsafe, but I ask him to remember the special circumstances of this particular class of road-users and to be most sympathetic towards them.
Under the present law these showmen have what is classed as a heavy motor car, and they take out a licence for that vehicle and one trailer. Occasionally, in the course of their business, in the event of the breakdown of a vehicle, they may have to put on a second trailer, and then they are limited to four miles an hour, but they are allowed to put on the second trailer under those conditions because the heavy motor car is then regarded as a heavy locomotive. Under this Measure I am afraid that this little privilege may be taken away from them. I ask the Minister to look into the matter and to see that the small concession which they enjoy under the existing law is not removed. I am sure he does not wish to put any hardship on to these men, many of whom come from London and live in the right hon. Gentleman's own part of London. I do not say that they are constituents of his, but many of them are London men and the descendants of generations of showmen. They attend every year the great concourse at Islington, and I suggest that my right hon. Friend should on some occasion visit that gathering, and I think he will be delighted to see what a fine sterling lot of people they are. I hope their case will not be overlooked by him in the consideration of these regulations.
Lieut.-Colonel MOOREI wish to support the argument advanced by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Central Hull (Lieut.-Commander Kenworthy), and to mention one or two points which he, I am sure unintentionally, omitted from his speech. These travelling showmen play a very large part in the life of the village communities of our country. The people in 699 many remote parts of the country live rather drab lives as a rule, and these showmen help in many ways to bring some pleasure and colour into the lives of the people. My second point is that their vehicles are not like the vehicles of carriers. They do not run to a schedule, and they have not to tear around the countryside at a breakneck speed. They go at a sober, steady, moderate pace from one place to another giving their periodical performances, and I hope that the Minister will show them every sympathy.
§ Major HILLSI beg to ask leave to withdraw my Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.