HC Deb 10 July 1930 vol 241 cc691-4
Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

I beg to move, in page 18, line 26, to leave out the word "public."

This is the first of a series of Amendments to this Clause. They are really little more than drafting Amendments, but they are rendered necessary by the Amendment made in the Committee stage providing for an additional person in the case of either one or two trailers. This requirement is unnecessary in the case of locomotives, as it is necessary under the Sub-section for two men to be carried on the locomotive. Consideration of this point was promised during the Committee stage, and the case has been met in these Amendments. Further consideration since the Amendment was made in Committee has brought to light a number of exceptions for which provision will have to be made—motor rollers, cases where there is no room for a second person on the vehicle, articulated vehicles and certain kinds of trailers, which are in the form of containers, and small trailers and caravans. Sub-section (5) provides that these matters can be dealt with by regulation, but the House will agree that the practical needs of trade and industry necessitate that the Minister shall have reasonable power as to the regulations to be issued.

Colonel ASHLEY

I thought I caught the word "caravan." Surely in this Clause we are not dealing with caravans, which are instruments for carrying people. If the Minister of Transport takes his wife and family for a tour in Devonshire, or in the delightful country of Hampshire, is he obliged to have someone in the caravan besides the person in the motor car?

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

Under the Clause there might have been difficulties in that case. Of course there is the caravan case, for example the country fair and so on, where there may be a considerable number of trailers. It was conceived that in the caravan case mentioned by the right hon. and gallant Gentleman hardship might arise, and therefore I am taking power by regulation to meet that case as a matter of administration.

Major GLYN

The Minister mentioned the articulated vehicle. I do not remember that it was discussed in Committee. Some of these articulated vehicles are very long indeed. Is it possible for the Minister to arrange for some persons to be at the back of one articulated vehicle if it is of abnormal length?

Mr. MORRISON

It may be so. The case will need to be a sound case before a concession will be made. I shall not give a concession unless it is reasonable.

Sir W. BRASS

Would the Minister explain why it is necessary to leave out the word "public"? Does he mean that all this Clause is to apply to private roads and so on?

Mr. MORRISON

My recollection is that this is related to a subsequent definition of the highway which will come up in the definition Clause, and therefore "public" is redundant.

Colonel HOWARD-BURY

I gather that the Minister in his speech covered a series of Amendments which he is moving, and I would draw attention to the last of these, where he proposes, after the word "vehicle," to insert the words "other than a heavy locomotive or a light locomotive.' He is making certain exceptions. He has omitted to deal with motor tractors, which will be seriously affected by this Clause. The Clause stipulates that there should be an attendant for the trailer in addition to the driver of the tractor. A very large transport business is carried on by means of tractors drawing trailers, and there is no accommodation whatever for the attendant either on the tractor or the trailer. I suggest that after the words "heavy locomotive or a light locomotive" he should insert the words "or motor tractor." Up to the present time this transport business has been carried on satisfactorily. There is the case of our meat supply in London, brought from the docks. There are 70,000 quarters of beef and 100,000 lamb and mutton carcases hauled from the docks to Smithfield every week. All these are hauled by tractors on which only one man is employed. It the Clause is passed it will add considerably to the cost of transport of meat from the docks to Smithfield Market.

Dr. DAVIES

I understand that the Minister is taking power to vary the regulations under this Clause, and that he will be able to deal with motor-driven rollers. I hope he will bear that matter in mind.

Mr. MARKHAM

Will he also bear in mind the motor-roller that is engaged not only in rolling roads but in tests and demonstrations?

Mr. HERBERT MORRISON

The case to which the hon. and gallant Member for Chelmsford (Colonel Howard-Bury) referred is precisely one of the cases brought to my attention, and is a case which I was trying to meet. I am advised that these words are sufficient for the purpose, but if the trade concerned considers that I am wrong, I shall be prepared to receive representations and to take steps to put the matter right in another place. On the question of the motor-roller, I gather that these words will give me the necessary power, but I will take into account the points that have been raised.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 18, line 26, at the end, insert the words: and where any such locomotive is drawing a trailer or trailers on a highway one or more persons, in addition to the persons employed as aforesaid shall be employed for the purpose of attending to the trailer or trailers at the rate of one such additional person for each trailer in excess of one. Provided that this sub-section shall not apply to a road roller while engaged in rolling a road.

In line 27, after the word "vehicle," insert the words "other than a heavy locomotive or a light locomotive."

In line 28, leave out the word "public."

Leave out the words "or more persons," and insert instead thereof the word "person."

In line 29, leave out the words "persons employed in driving and attending to," and insert instead thereof the words "driver of."

In line 30, leave out the word "employed," and insert instead thereof the words "carried either on the vehicle or on a trailer."

In line 31, leave out from the word "trailers," to the end of the Sub-section.

In line 40, at the end, insert the words: (5) The Minister may by regulation vary the requirements of this section in respect of any class or description of motor vehicles or any class or description of trailers."—[Mr. Herbert Morrison.]