§ Lords Amendment: In page 13, line 30, leave out "are hereby repealed," and insert "shall."?
| Division No. 129.] | AYES. | [10.33 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Forgan, Dr. Robert | Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Freeman, Peter | Lawson, John James |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham. Upton) | Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Car'vn) | Leach, W. |
| Alpass, J. H. | George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) | Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) |
| Ammon, Charles George | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) | Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) |
| Angell, Norman | Gibbins, Joseph | Lees, J. |
| Arnott, John | Gibson, H. M. (Lancs, Mossley) | Lowis, T. (Southampton) |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Gill, T. H. | Lindley, Fred W. |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Gillett, George M. | Lloyd, C. Ellis |
| Ayles, Walter | Glassey, A. E. | Logan, David Gilbert |
| Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Gossling, A. G. | Longbottom, A. W. |
| Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) | Gould, F. | Longden, F. |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Lovat-Fraser, J. A. |
| Batey, Joseph | Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Lowth, Thomas |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Gray, Milner | Lunn, William |
| Bennett, Capt. E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) | Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) |
| Benson, G. | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' w.) | MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | McElwee, A. |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Groves, Thomas E. | McEntee, V. L. |
| Birkett, W. Norman | Grundy, Thomas W. | McKinlay, A. |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | MacLaren, Andrew |
| Bowen, J. W. | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | MacNeill-Weir, L. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) | Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) | Mander, Geoffrey le M. |
| Bromfield, William | Harbison, T. J. | Mansfield, W. |
| Bromley, J. | Harbord, A. | March, S. |
| Brooke, W. | Hardie, George D. | Marcus, M. |
| Brothers, M. | Harris, Percy A. | Markham, S. F. |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts, Mansfield) | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Marley, J. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Mathers, George |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Haycock, A. W. | Matters, L. W. |
| Buchanan, G. | Hayday, Arthur | Maxton, James |
| Burgess, F. G. | Hayes, John Henry | Melville, Sir James |
| Burgin, Dr. E. L. | Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) | Messer, Fred |
| Buxton, C. R. (Yorks. W. R. Elland) | Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Millar, J. D. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel (Norfolk, N.) | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) | Mills, J. E. |
| Caine, Derwent Hall- | Herriotts, J. | Milner, J. |
| Cameron, A. G. | Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) | Montague, Frederick |
| Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Morgan, Dr. H. B. |
| Charleton, H. C. | Hoffman, P. C. | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) |
| Church, Major A. G. | Horrabin, J. F. | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) |
| Clarke, J. S. | Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) | Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) |
| Cluse, W. S. | Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Mort, D. L. |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) |
| Compton, Joseph | Isaacs, George | Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) |
| Cove, William G. | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Muggeridge, H. T. |
| Daggar, George | Johnston, Thomas | Murnin, Hugh |
| Dallas, George | Jones, F. Llewellyn- (Flint) | Nathan, Major H. L. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Naylor, T. E. |
| Davies, E. C. (Montgomery) | Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Noel Baker, P. J. |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Oldfield, J. R. |
| Devlin, Joseph | Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) |
| Dickson, T. | Kedward, R. M. (Kent, Ashford) | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) |
| Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Kelly, W. T. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) |
| Dukes, C. | Kennedy, Thomas | Palin, John Henry |
| Duncan, Charles | Kinley, J. | Paling, Wilfrid |
| Ede, James Chuter | Kirkwood, D. | Palmer, E. T. |
| Edmunds, J. E. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton) | Perry, S. F. |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Lang, Gordon | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. |
| Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Phillips, Dr. Marion |
| Egan, W. H. | Lathan, G. | Picton-Turbervill, Edith |
| Elmley, Viscount | Law, Albert (Bolton) | Pole, Major D. G. |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Law, A. (Rossendale) | Potts, John S. |
| Foot, Isaac | Lawrence, Susan | Pybus, Percy John |
§ Mr. SPEAKERI beg to inform the House that this Amendment, again, raises a question of Privilege.
§ Motion made, and Question put, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."—[Mr. Lawson.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 281; Noes, 124.
| Quibell, D. J. K. | Smith, Alfred (Sunderland) | Viant, S. P. |
| Ramsay, T. B. Wilson | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) | Walker, J. |
| Raynes, W. R. | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) | Wallace, H. W. |
| Richards, R. | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) | Watkins, F. C. |
| Riley, Bun (Dowsbury) | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) | Welfock, Wilfred |
| Ritson, J. | Snell, Harry | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip | Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge) |
| Romeril, H. G. | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) | West, F. R. |
| Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Sorensen, R. | Westwood, Joseph |
| Rowson, Guy | Stamford, Thomas W. | White, H. G. |
| Salter, Dr. Alfred | Stephen, Campbell | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Samuel, H. W. (Swansea, West) | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Sandham, E. | Strauss, G. R. | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Sawyer, G. F. | Sullivan, J. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Scurr, John | Sutton, J. E. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Sexton, James | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.) | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| Shakespeare, Geoffrey H. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Thurtle, Ernest | Winterton, G. E.(Leicester, Loughb'gh) |
| Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Tillett, Ben | Wise, E. F. |
| Sherwood, G. H. | Tinker, John Joseph | Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff) |
| Shield, George William | Toole, Joseph | Wright, W. (Rutherglen) |
| Shiels, Dr. Drummond | Tout, W. J. | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Shillaker, J. F. | Townend, A. E. | |
| Short, Alfred (Wedneabury) | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Simmons, C. J. | Turner, B. | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. |
| Sitch, Charles H. | Vaughan, D. J. | Whiteley. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Ganzoni, Sir John | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Albery, Irving James | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) | Reynolds, Col. Sir James |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l., W.) | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Allen, w. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell |
| Atkinson, C. | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) | Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Waiter E. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Balniel, Lord | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Harmon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Savery, S. S. |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon | Haslam, Henry C. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U., Belfst) |
| Bevan, S. J. (Holborn) | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Skelton, A. N. |
| Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman | Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Hurd, Percy A. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Boyce, H. L. | Iveagh, Countess of | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Kindersley, Major G. M. | Stanley, Maj. Hon. O. (W'morland) |
| Carver, Major W. H. | King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. | Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur |
| Cattle Stewart, Earl of | Knox, Sir Alfred | Stuart, J. C. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Christie, J. A. | Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F. |
| Colville, Major D. J. | Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) | Thomson, Sir F. |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Train, J. |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Llewellin, Major J. J. | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey | Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Long, Major Eric | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Dairymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | Lymington, Viscount | Wardlaw-Milne, J. S. |
| Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. | Margesson, Captain H. D. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Marjoribanks, E. C. | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Merriman, Sir F. Boyd | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Duckworth, G. A. V. | Mitchell-Thomson. Rt. Hon. Sir W. | Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.) |
| Dugdale, Capt. T. L. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Womersley, W. J. |
| Elliot, Major Walter E. | Muirhead, A. J. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s. M.) | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | Penny, Sir George | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Fison, F. G. Clavering | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Captain Sir George Bowyer and |
| Forestler-Walker, Sir L. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Major the Marquess of Titchfield. |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Power, Sir John Cecil |
§
Lords Amendment: In page 13, line 31, at the end, insert
cease to have effect until the first day of April, nineteen hundred and thirty-one.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis Amendment, again, raises a question of Privilege.
§ Motion made, and Question put, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."—[Mr. Lawson.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 283; Noes, 124.
| Division No. 130.] | AYES. | [10.44 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) | Matters, L. W. |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Maxton, James |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' W.) | Melville, Sir James |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Messer, Fred |
| Alpass, J. H. | Groves, Thomas E. | Millar, J. D. |
| Ammon, Charles George | Grundy, Thomas W. | Mills, J. E. |
| Angell, Norman | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Milner, J. |
| Arnott, John | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Montague, Frederick |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) | Morgan, Dr. H. B. |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) | Morley, Ralph |
| Ayles, Walter | Harbison, T. J. | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) |
| Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Harbord, A. | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) |
| Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) | Hardie, George D. | Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.) |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Harris, Percy A. | Mort, D. L. |
| Batey, Joseph | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) |
| Bennett, Captain E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Haycock, A. W. | Muggeridge, H. T. |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Hayday, Arthur | Murnin, Hugh |
| Benson, G. | Hayes, John Henry | Nathan, Major H. L. |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) | Naylor, T. E. |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Birkett, W. Norman | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) | Noel Baker, P. J. |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Herriotts, J. | Oldfield, J. R. |
| Bowen, J. W. | Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Hoffman, P. C. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) |
| Bromfield, William | Horrabin, J. F. | Palin, John Henry |
| Bromley, J. | Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) | Paling, Wilfrid |
| Brooke, W. | Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Palmer, E. T. |
| Brothers, M. | Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Perry, S. F. |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts, Mansfield) | Isaacs, George | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Phillips, Dr. Marion |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Johnston, Thomas | Picton-Turbervill, Edith |
| Buchanan, G. | Jones, F. Llewellyn- (Flint) | Pole, Major D. G. |
| Burgess, F. G. | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Potts, John S. |
| Burgin, Dr. E. L. | Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Pybus, Percy John |
| Buxton, C. R. (Yorks, W. R. Elland) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Quibell, D. J. K. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel (Norfolk, N.) | Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson |
| Caine, Derwent Hall- | Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. | Rathbone, Eleanor |
| Cameron, A. G. | Kedward, R. M. (Kent, Ashford) | Raynes, W. R. |
| Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) | Kelly, W. T. | Richards, R. |
| Charleton, H. C. | Kennedy, Thomas | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Church, Major A. G. | Kinley, J. | Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) |
| Clarke, J. S. | Kirkwood, D. | Ritson, J. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton) | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F D.(W. Bromwich) |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Lang, Gordon | Romeril, H. G. |
| Compton, Joseph | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Rosbotham, D. S. T. |
| Cove, William G. | Lathan, G. | Rowson, Guy |
| Daggar, George | Law, Albert (Bolton) | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Dallas, George | Law, A. (Rossendale) | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lawrence, Susan | Samuel, H. W. (Swansea, West) |
| Davies, E. C. (Montgomery) | Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) | Sandham, E. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lawson, John James | Sawyer, G. F. |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Scurr, John |
| Devlin, Joseph | Leach, W. | Sexton, James |
| Dickson, T. | Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) | Shakespeare, Geoffrey H. |
| Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) |
| Dukes, C. | Lees, J. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis |
| Duncan, Charles | Lewis, T. (Southampton) | Sherwood, G. H. |
| Ede, James Chuter | Lindley, Fred W. | Shield, George William |
| Edmunds, J. E. | Lloyd, C. Ellis | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Logan, David Gilbert | Shillaker, J. F. |
| Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Longbottom, A. W. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Egan, W. H. | Longden, F. | Simmons, C. J. |
| Elmley, Viscount | Lovat-Fraser, J. A. | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Lowth, Thomas | Smith, Alfred (Sunderland) |
| Foot, Isaac | Lunn, William | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Forgan, Dr. Robert | Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) |
| Freeman, Peter | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) | MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) |
| George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Car'vn) | McElwee, A. | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) |
| George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) | McEntee, V. L. | Snell, Harry |
| George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) | McKinlay, A. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Gibbins, Joseph | MacLaren, Andrew | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) |
| Gibson, H. M. (Lancs, Mossley) | MacNeill-Weir, L. | Sorensen, R. |
| Gill, T. H. | Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| Gillett, George M. | Mander, Geoffrey le M. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Glassey, A. E. | Mansfield, W. | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) |
| Gossling, A. G. | March, S. | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe |
| Gould, F. | Marcus, M. | Strauss, G. R. |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Markham, S. F. | Sullivan, J. |
| Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Marley, J. | Sutton, J. E. |
| Gray, Milner | Mathers, George | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.) |
| Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) | Wallhead, Richard C. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Thurtle, Ernest | Watkins, F. C. | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| Tillett, Ben | Wellock, Wilfred | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Tinker, John Joseph | Welsh, James (Paisley) | Winterton, G. E.(Leicester, Loughb'gh) |
| Toole, Joseph | Welch, James C. (Coatbridge) | Wise, E. F. |
| Tout, W. J. | West, F. R. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Townend, A. E. | Westwood, Joseph | Wright, W. (Rutherglen) |
| Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | White, H. G. | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Turner, B. | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) | |
| Vaughan, D. J. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Viant, S. P. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. |
| Walker, J. | Williams Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) | Whiteley. |
| Wallace, H. W. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Albery, Irving James | Ganzoni, Sir John | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandaman (Liverp'l., W.) | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) | Reynolds, Col. Sir James |
| Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'te'y) |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) |
| Atkinson, C. | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Russell, Alexander Watt (Tynemouth) |
| Balniel, Lord | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Savery, S. S. |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
| Bevan, s. J. (Holborn) | Haslam, Henry C. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U., Belfast) |
| Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Skelton, A. N. |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. | Hurd, Percy A. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Boyce, H. L. | Iveagh, Countess of | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Kindersley, Major G. M. | Stanley, Maj. Hon. O. (W'morland) |
| Carver, Major W. H. | King, Commodore Rt. Hon. Henry D. | Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur |
| Castle Stewart, Earl of | Knox, Sir Alfred | Stuart, J. C. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Christie, J. A. | Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F. |
| Colville, Major D. J. | Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) | Thomson, Sir F. |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Titchfield, Major the Marquess at |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Llewellin, Major J. J. | Train, J. |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Long, Major Eric | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Dairymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | Lymington, Viscount | Wardlaw-Milne, J. S. |
| Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir j. H. | Margesson, Captain H. D. | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Marjoribanks, E. C. | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Merriman, Sir F. Boyd | Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.) |
| Duckworth, G. A. V. | Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Dugdale, Capt. T. L. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) | Womersley, W. J. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Elliot, Major Walter E. | Muirhead, A. J. | |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s. M.) | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | Penny, Sir George | Captain Wallace and Sir Victor |
| Fison, F. G. Clavering | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Warrender. |
| Forestler-Walker, Sir L. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
§ Lords Amendment: In page 14, line 2, leave out from the beginning, to the word "may," and insert "those Acts and this Act."
§ Miss BONDFIELDI beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ This Amendment is merely due to the fact that the Act overlaps into 1930, instead of being completed in 1929.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Lords Amendment: In line 13, at the end, insert a new Sub-section.
§ "(8) This Act shall continue in force until the thirty-first day of March, nineteen 1338 hundred and thirty-one, and no longer, and thereafter the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1920 to 1929, shall have effect as if this Act had not been passed."
§ Mr. SPEAKERThis Amendment raises a question of Privilege.
§ Miss BONDFIELDI beg to move, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ Major ELLIOTI hesitated to rise, thinking that the Minister was about to give some reason for moving to disagree with this Amendment.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe right hon. Lady has already made a speech on this sub- 1339 ject, and, had she commenced another, I should have had to rule her out of order. We cannot have a repetition of the same Debate which took place earlier in the evening.
§ Major ELLIOTThat was why I was hoping that the Minister would give the House a few words of explanation showing in what way this Amendment differs from the Amendments which we have previously had under consideration. I was about to indicate to the House that this Amendment raises the question of the limitation, not of this Clause or of that Clause, but of the Bill. It deals with several points about the Bill on which no discussion of any kind has taken place this evening. It deals more particularly with the whole case of bringing in the juveniles, to which no reference whatever has been made during the evening. In fact, it would have been ruled out of order earlier, but it is of course now fully in order, because this proviso ought to make possible the long anticipated statement of the President of the Board of Education. The Minister, and indeed the Government, in the Bill which they have introduced, have gone to the extraordinary length, not merely of legislation by reference, but of reference to an Act which has not yet been passed, or even drafted, and of which the terms are absolutely unknown to the House; and, what is more, that Act is not to come into operation for a considerable time after the passing of the Measure which is at present before the House. This Amendment, in limiting the whole of the present Measure, and not merely one Clause or another, would enable the question of bringing the juveniles into the Bill to be reviewed. Undoubtedly, however, it is desirable to review the policy of the Bill as a whole on this proviso, because, in addition to the Debates on one or two particular points which have been raised, this proviso offers us an opportunity of reviewing the declared policy of the Government with regard to the Ministry of Labour, and the policy which the Government are pursuing on this particular subject.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. and gallant Member is now going far beyond this particular Amendment.
§ Major ELLIOTI respectfully submit that a general Debate has not been allowed on the Bill as a whole—
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt would be quite out of order.
§ Major ELLIOTCertainly, the Debate on the Bill as a whole would have been out of order, but the question of limiting the Bill is obviously in order, and, in fact, that is the issue which this Amendment specifically raises. The question of the time over which this Bill is to run cannot be discussed apart from the Amendment that we have before us. In discussing its merits, and whether it is or is not desirable to limit such a Bill, it is necessary for us to submit arguments showing in what respects it is desirable for the House at an early date to review the Statute that is being brought into force. It would, of course, be simply waste of time to suggest that the whole Bill should have been rejected, because that would obviously be out of order, and that is not the proposal before the House. But the limitations of the proposal are founded, first of all, on a statement made by the responsible Minister herself; secondly, on the Debates that took place in another place; and, thirdly, on the policy of the Government as indicated in a recent pronouncement which makes it more than desirable for us to hold this policy closely under review.
§ Mr. THURTLEOn a point of Order. If you, Sir, call an hon. Gentleman to order for irrelevance on three occasions, ought he not then to resume his seat?
§ Mr. SPEAKERPerhaps the hon. Member will allow me to be the judge of that.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODI will see that I get the same treatment.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is not entitled to make those accusations against the Chair.
§ Major ELLIOTI submit that the question in respect of juveniles has not been broached at all this evening. The question whether the Minister did or did not give a Parliamentary pledge to review the Bill as a whole was broached, it is true, on that previous occasion, and it was decided that it should be left over to the occasion that we have now. On 1341 the third point, the question is how far we can comment on the declared policy of the Ministry, the policy of temporarily increasing unemployment, thereby causing a greater charge to fall upon the fund, and increasing the numbers with which this Statute will have to deal. If and when I am allowed to develop that part of the argument, no doubt you, Sir, will call me to order if I transgress the strictest rules.
On the first point, the question of the juveniles, we have the position in which the Minister herself introduced a Statute in terms which did not satisfy any quarter of the House. An Amendment was moved dealing with the point by Members below and above the Gangway, and the Minister bowed to the collective wisdom of the House. The Minister was far from bowing in that abject manner in which she bowed to the wisdom of the House when it came in a concentrated blast from the benches behind her. [Interruption.] The Minister then brought forward the suggestion, in order to deal with the obvious uneasiness in all parts of the House regarding the proposals which she was making, to bring young persons apparently straight from school into the machinery of unemployment insurance and to ensure that from the first wages which a boy or girl earned the State should reach over his or her shoulder and dump the Unemployment Insurance stamp on to the wages card, and introduce him or her immediately to the theory that only a short time would elapse before he or she began to fall on that unhappy phenomenon of social life, Unemployment Insurance benefit.
§ Mr. KELLYOn a point of Order. In view of the detailed discussion which we have had on the old Clause 4 and the new Clause 4, is it in order now to discuss each of the other Clauses in detail?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe House will perhaps forgive me, because I am in a slight difficulty. I was not present at the time of the previous discussion, and I am extremely anxious to be fair to all sides. As far as I can gather from the hon. and gallant Member, the question with regard to juveniles was not fully discussed, and on that particular point I shall allow the Debate to go on.
§ Mr. C. WILLIAMSOn the point of order. Earlier I attempted to discuss whether this was a dole or not. I was told then that it was out of order, and that I should be in order later, and obviously we ought to be allowed to discuss whether it is a dole or proper insurance benefit.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI must take each point as it arises.
§ Major ELLIOTI am sure that these interruptions do not shorten the discussion. I shall do my best to deal with the admittedly difficult case of the Bill before us in connection with the Amendments which have come down from another place. The question of the juveniles was discussed at some length in another place, and the discussion on the juveniles was, after all, one of the reasons which led the other House to insert the time limit. If the time limit were struck out or disagreed with, the proposals of the other place with regard to the Bill would need to be reconsidered. The Minister, as I was saying, proposed to bring young persons into the machinery of Unemployment Insurance without any, what is called "gap," but what I would prefer to call "break."
I am certainly not going to debate the merits of the case, because, after all, it was clearly brought out that young persons were not to be brought into insurance, because of the amount of unemployment that they would suffer, but rather on account of the supposed benefits that they might derive from the discipline under which they would be kept. It was rather a suprise to learn that the Minister was counting upon the large amount of money that she would receive in connection with their contributions. She wished to bring in agricultural labourers for the same reason, namely, that she would be able to get a great deal more money from them than she would pay out. She hoped to bring in domestic servants in the same way. She justified her general policy on the ground that it was a splendid thing that people from other industries should pay for the depressed industries. That reinforces to an extraordinary degree the contention which we have heard advanced from the benches opposite that it is the poor who have to help the poor.
§ Mr. SHEPHERDAnd the rich.
§ Mr. KIRKWOODIt is the Tories who keep the poor poor.
§ Major ELLIOTI shall do my best not to be led away by interrupters, although they open a very fascinating field of discussion. I shall do my best to adhere rigidly to the subject under discussion and limit the Debate, so that we may get to our beds at a seasonable hour. The Minister of Labour bowed to the wish of the House that we should make certain that payment would be made only when the recipients were attending juvenile unemployment centres. That to some extent soothed the apprehensions of the House, but in subsequent debate it transpired that that intention was qualified by the words "if centres were available." Both Oppositions had sought to put compulsion upon the Minister in regard to the provision of Juvenile Unemployment Centres. Centres might or might not be available, and it left entirely at the discretion of the Minister whether payment should be made or not. Under a time limit it would be possible, when the Act came up for review, to see whether the Minister had pursued the policy of Juvenile Unemployment Centres or whether through carelessness or preoccupation with other things, she had not done so. She might be excused for preoccupation with other things, seeing the rate at which unemployment figures are rising. It might be that she had been pre-occupied with other things and had not been able to supervise the pressing forward of the Juvenile Unemployment Centre programme. It was only on the understanding of a Juvenile Unemployment Centre programme that the House parted with this portion of the Bill. If the proposed policy is to be proceeded with, then not merely a minority but a majority of the House will be in disagreement with the Minister.
A point which was broached but not discussed at any length was whether she had in mind a temporary duration, not merely for the transition period, but for the whole Bill, when she introduced the Bill. If that was so, it is germane to our discussion, and it is reasonable that the House should support us in moving what the Minister apparently had in her mind. To those who were present when she dealt with this part of the Bill 1344 on the Second Reading it was clear that she approached the Debate in a spirit of trepidation and apprehension as to the reception which not merely the temporary but the permanent portion of the Measure would get from her supporters, notably hon. Members below the Gangway—trepidation and apprehension, which events proved to be well justified. She desired to disarm this opposition in advance, and gave evidence of a desire to amend the Bill and make its operation temporary. I contend that it was from that angle, not from the angle of making a slip, that she made her well-known pronouncement, that the Sub-section would be open to criticism and that there would be an opportunity of amending it at the end of the year. Nobody who knows the right hon. Lady's powers of expression and her character would suggest that she was making a slip which she has omitted to remedy. She was acting under the fear of having to modify her proposals, of having to meet opposition from more than one quarter of the House, and particularly from a quarter to which she is entitled to look for support. It was from that angle that she made the pronouncement that the Sub-section could be considered at the end of the year, and that only experience could show whether the Sub-section would help us to avoid the twin evils of injustice to the claimant and imposition on the Unemployment Fund. The proposal which has been made in another place, and which we are now discussing, enables us to review the position in the light of the experience for which the Minister asked when she introduced the Bill on Second Beading, and when she made the pronouncement that experience alone would enable us to determine the working of this Clause or any Clause dealing with benefit, and that experience could only be obtained by a review at a later date of the Unemployment Insurance Fund.
This is all the more necessary because the pronouncement of the Minister and the Chancellor of the Duchy was that an increase in the unemployment figures was to be expected in the immediate future. This was not merely a fear or expectation, it was almost a hope that they would rise, because it would be a proof of the success of their policy of 1345 rationalisation. This argument was seriously voiced by the right hon. Lady in our Debates. She said:
The figures will be in excess of the figures of last year, for the reason that under the late Government things were allowed to drift.She goes on to explain that there will be reorganisation, and says:Before re-organisation can take full effect there will be much displacement in the number of persons unemployed.My right hon. Friend the Member for West Woolwich (Sir K. Wood) interjected the remark that the Lord Privy Seal only a short time before had said that the figures would be much better for February, which is almost here now and the right hon. Lady made the rather caustic remark:I am not speaking for the purpose of making a debating point.That was rather hard on the Lord Privy Seal. We have the statement put up on behalf of the Ministry, challenged by hon. Members below the Gangway; by the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) and another hon. Member who sometimes acts with him—
§ Mr. THURTLEMay I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker, as to whether the hon. and gallant Member is entitled in trying to establish his point now to give us a long survey of the Debates which have taken place in this House in the past and to read extracts from them.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI find it rather difficult to connect the hon. and gallant Member's speech with the Amendment now before the House.
§ Major ELLIOTI will do my utmost to connect it: my argument was devoted to that end. When dealing with this Measure at the beginning of the series of Debates we were not informed of the anticipation that the Ministry would press forward actively the process of rationalisation with the view to increasing even temporarily the number of unemployed.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI gave a ruling on the question of the time limit that there should be no repetition of arguments used before. I indicated my desire that a long rambling debate on the merits of the Bill should not be allowed.
§ Captain EDENOn a point of Order. In the earlier stages it was ruled quite clearly by your predecessor in the Chair that our discussions on that occasion were confined solely to consideration of whether the statutory provision governing benefit should be reconsidered within a year or not. That was the only subject we were allowed to discuss.
§ Mr. C. WILLIAMSFurther on that point of Order. I wanted to discuss the matter of the dole and was not allowed to do so. I did not in the least wish to transgress the rules, but I did hope I should have a chance of raising it now.
§ Mr. SPEAKERDiscussion of what the hon. Member is pleased to call the dole would be quite out of order on this Amendment.
§ Major ELLIOTI shall do my utmost to avoid what you stigmatise as a long rambling discussion on the merits of the Bill. I shall do so more particularly in view of the presence of the Secretary for War, who, if any rambling discussion were embarked upon, would be certain to ramble further. The Amendment suggests that Parliament should not finally part with this Measure at this time, but should retain it for reconsideration and review. I do say that the proposals that have been brought forward in more than one aspect require the continued consideration of Parliament. Our desire to limit the time is a desire to keep under review the administrative developments which the Minister herself has foreshadowed. It is for these, amongst other reasons, that I and my Friends on this side wish that the House should not here and now part with the Bill.
§ Captain EDENLike many of my hon. Friends on this side of the House, I feel that this is the most important Amendment which we have to discuss to-night. We were confined strictly in the earlier stages of the Debate, and my only desire now is to draw the attention of the House to one or two matters in connection with this Amendment. I do not think that anybody can deny that considerable confusion exists as to the effects of the working of the Measure. I do not think that the right hon. Lady herself would deny the temporary nature of the Measure and, apart from its general provisions, the question of juvenile unemployment arises in this connection. We 1347 shall, first of all, if we have the opportunity a year hence, desire to review the effects of the inclusion of juveniles at lower ages, and surely we are entitled—
§ Miss BONDFIELDIt will only be operative a year hence.
§ Captain EDENThat is exactly the point which I wish to make. This provision is contingent upon another proviso, and the right hon. Lady and the Government have given us an assurance that that proviso will be fulfilled, but Government assurances are not always so easily and quickly redeemed. Should that promise not be redeemed, we wish to have an opportunity, within a certain limit of time, of calling the attention of the right hon. Lady to its non-fulfilment. It seems to me that that consideration greatly strengthens our case for being allowed to have this power, and I am obliged to the right hon. Lady for enabling me to make that point. Then there is the question of the instruction of the children. Very strong emphasis is laid upon the question of the training of children in the report with which the right hon. Lady is so familiar—the report of the Blanesburgh Committee. One sentence of that report states that in the judgment of the committee further provision for training was essential. Everyone on this side is
| Division No. 131.] | AYES. | [11.29 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife. West) | Buchanan, G. | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Burgess, F. G. | George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Burgin, Dr. E. L. | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Caine, Derwent Hall- | Gibbins, Joseph |
| Alpass, J. H. | Cameron, A. G. | Gibson, H. M. (Lancs, Mossley) |
| Ammon, Charles George | Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) | Gill, T. H. |
| Angell, Norman | Charleton, H. C. | Gillett, George M. |
| Arnott, John | Chater, Daniel | Glassey, A. E. |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Church, Major A. G. | Gossling, A. G. |
| Ayles, Walter | Clarke, J. S. | Gould, F. |
| Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) | Cluse, W. S. | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) |
| Batey, Joseph | Compton, Joseph | Gray, Milner |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Dagger, George | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) |
| Bennett, Capt. E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Dallas, George | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Dalton, Hugh | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' W.) |
| Benson, G. | Cavies, E. C. (Montgomery) | Groves, Thomas E. |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Grundy, Thomas W. |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Denman, Hon. R. D. | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) |
| Birkett, W. Norman | Devlin, Joseph | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) |
| Bowen, J. W. | Dukes, C. | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Duncan, Charles | Harbison, T. J. |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Ede, James Chuter | Harbord, A. |
| Bromfield, William | Edmunds, J. E. | Hardie, George D. |
| Bromley, J. | Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Harris, Percy A. |
| Brooke, W. | Egan, W. H. | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon |
| Brothers, M. | Elmley, Viscount | Hastings, Dr. Somerville |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts, Mansfield) | Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Haycock, A. W. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Foot, Isaac | Hayday, Arthur |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Freeman, Peter | Hayes, John Henry |
§ agreed that we should have an opportunity to review the position as regards the further training a year from now. Surely the right hon. Lady is not going to say that she does not hope to make any progress in the matter of training facilities between now and next year; and on this ground alone the House is entitled to this extremely reasonable provision. There has hardly ever been a Bill in which, in the course of its passage through Parliament, quite apart from the Statutory provision which we have ceased to consider, there have been so many modifications, so many changes of mind, so many points of view, so many different reflections passing through the minds of Ministers. The position is one about which there cannot, but be great uncertainty. There must inevitably be uncertainty as to the future of the Bill. I therefore think it reasonable to ask that this very modest provision inserted in another place should be maintained, so that the House may keep open what ought to be its undoubted right.
§ Several HON. MEMBERS rose—
§ Miss BONDFIELD rote in her place, and claimed to more, "Tint the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 252; Noes, 104.
| Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardin, S.) | Markham, S. F. | Sherwood, G. H. |
| Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Marley, J. | Shield, George William |
| Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) | Mathers, George | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Herriotts, J. | Matters, L. W. | Shillaker, J. F. |
| Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) | Maxton, James | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Melville, Sir James | Simmons, C. J. |
| Hoffman, P. C. | Messer, Fred | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Millar, J. D. | Smith, Alfred (Sunderland) |
| Horrabin, J. F. | Mills, J. E. | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) | Milner, J. | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) |
| Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Montague, Frederick | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) |
| Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Morgan, Dr. H. B. | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) |
| Isaacs, George | Morley, Ralph | Snell, Harry |
| Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Morris-Jones. Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) |
| Jones, F. Llewellyn, (Flint) | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) | Sorensen, R. |
| Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Mort, D. L. | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) | Stephen, Campbell |
| Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe |
| Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Muggeridge, H. T. | Strauss, G. R. |
| Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. | Murnin, Hugh | Sutton, J. E. |
| Kedward, R. M. (Kent, Ashford) | Nathan, Major H. L. | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk. S. W.) |
| Kelly, W. T. | Naylor, T. E. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) |
| Kennedy, Thomas | Noel Baker, P. J. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Kinky, J. | Oldfield, J. R. | Tillett, Ben |
| Lang, Gordon | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) | Toole, Joseph |
| Lathan, G. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) | Tout, W. J. |
| Law, Albert (Bolton) | Palin, John Henry | Townend, A. E. |
| Law, A. (Rossendale) | Paling, Wilfrid | Turner, B. |
| Lawrence, Susan | Perry, S. F. | Vaughan, D. J. |
| Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Viant, S. P. |
| Lawson, John James | Phillips, Dr. Mar[...]on | Wallace, H. W. |
| Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Picton-Turbervill, Edith | Watkins, F. C. |
| Leach, W. | Potts, John S. | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) | Pybus, Percy John | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) | Quibell, D. J. K. | Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge) |
| Lees, J. | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson | West, F. R. |
| Lewis, T. (Southampton) | Rathbone, Eleanor | Westwood, Joseph |
| Lindley, Fred W. | Raynes, W. R. | White, H. G. |
| Lloyd, C. Ellis | Richards, R. | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| Logan, David Gilbert | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le Spring) | Whiteley, William (Blaydon) |
| Longbottom, A. W. | Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Longden, F. | Ritson, J. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Lovat-Fraser, J. A. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) | Williams, Dr. J H. (Llanelly) |
| Lunn, William | Romeril, H. G. | Williams, T (York, Don Valley) |
| Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) | Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) | Rothschild, J. de | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| Macdonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Rowson, Guy | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| McElwee, A. | Salter, Dr. Alfred | Winterton, G. E. (Leicester, Loughb'gh) |
| McEntee, V. L. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | Wise, E. F. |
| McKinlay, A. | Samuel, H. W. (Swansea, West) | Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff) |
| MacLaren, Andrew | Sandham, E. | Wright, W. (Rutherglen) |
| Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) | Sawyer, G. F. | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Mander, Geoffrey le M. | Sexton, James | |
| Mansfield, W. | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Marcus, M. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. Charles Edwards. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Courtauld, Major J. S. | Greene, W. P. Crawford |
| Albery, Irving James | Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l., W.) | Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) |
| Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Harvey, Majors. E. (Devon, Totnes) |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Dalkeith, Earl of | Haslam, Henry C. |
| Atkinson, C. | Dairymple-White, Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller |
| Balniel, Lord | Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Davies, Dr. Vernon | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Iveagh, Countess of |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon | Duckworth, G. A. V. | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) |
| Bevan, S. J. (Holborn) | Dugdale, Capt. T. L. | Knox, Sir Alfred |
| Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman | Eden, Captain Anthony | Leighton, Major B. E. P. |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Llewellin, Major J. J. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Elliot, Major Walter E. | Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey |
| Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s. M.) | Long, Major Eric |
| Boyce, H. L. | Everard, W. Lindsay | Lymington, Viscount |
| Bracken, B. | Ferguson, Sir John | Margesson, Captain H. D. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Fison, F. G. Clavering | Marjoribanks, E. C. |
| Brown, Brig,-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Ganzoni, Sir John | Merriman, Sir F. Boyd |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) | Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. |
| Castle Stewart, Earl of | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. |
| Christie, J. A. | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) |
| Colville, Major D. J. | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive |
| Muirhead, A. J. | Salmon, Major I. | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Skelton, A. N. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Power, Sir John Cecil | Smithers, Waldron | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Hamsbotham, H. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Reynolds, Col. Sir James | Southby, Commander A. R. J. | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Richardson, Sir p. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) | Thomson, Sir F. | Womersley, W. J. |
| Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell | Todd, Capt. A. J. | |
| Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. | Train, J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement | Sir George Penny and Captain Wallace. |
§ Question put accordingly, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
| Division No. 132.] | AYES. | [11.38 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) | Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Gibbins, Joseph | Lees, J. |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Gibson, H. M. (Lancs, Mossley) | Lewis, T. (Southampton) |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Gill, T. H. | Lindley, Fred W. |
| Alpass, J. H. | Gillett, George M. | Lloyd, C. Ellis |
| Ammon, Charles George | Glassey, A. E. | Logan, David Gilbert |
| Angell, Norman | Gossling, A. G. | Longbottom, A. W. |
| Arnott, John | Gould, F. | Longden, F. |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Lovat-Fraser, J. A. |
| Ayles, Walter | Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Lunn, William |
| Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) | Gray, Milner | Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) |
| Batey, Joseph | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. Wedgwood | Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro'W.) | McElwee, A. |
| Bennett, Captain E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Groves, Thomas E. | McEntee, V. L. |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Grundy, Thomas W. | McKinlay, A. |
| Benson, G. | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | MacLaren, Andrew |
| Bentham, Dr. Ethel | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Hall, Capt. W. P. (Portsmouth, C.) | Mander, Geoffrey le M. |
| Birkett, W. Norman | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) | Mansfield, W. |
| Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret | Harbison, T. J. | Marcus, M. |
| Bowen, J. W. | Harbord, A. | Markham, S. F. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hardie, George D. | Marley, J. |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Harris, Percy A. | Mathers, George |
| Bromfield, William | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Matters, L. W. |
| Bromley, J. | Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Maxton, James |
| Brooke, W. | Haycock, A. W. | Melville, Sir James |
| Brothers, M. | Hayday, Arthur | Messer, Fred |
| Brown, C. W. E. (Notts, Mansfield) | Hayes, John Henry | Millar, J. D. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) | Mills, J. E. |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Milner, J. |
| Buchanan, G. | Henderson, W. W. (Middx., Enfield) | Montague, Frederick |
| Burgess, F. G. | Herriotts, J. | Morgan, Dr. H. B. |
| Burgin, Dr. E. L. | Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) | Morley, Ralph |
| Caine, Derwent Hall- | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) |
| Cameron, A. G. | Hoffman, P. C. | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) |
| Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S. W.) | Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Mort, D L. |
| Charleton, H. C. | Horrabin, J. F. | Mosley, Lady C. (Stoke-on-Trent) |
| Chater, Daniel | Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield) | Mosley, Sir Oswald (Smethwick) |
| Church, Major A. G. | Hunter, Dr. Joseph | Muggeridge, H. T. |
| Clarke, J. S. | Hutchison, Maj. Gen. Sir R. | Murnin, Hugh |
| Cluse, W. S. | Isaacs, George | Nathan, Major H. L. |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Naylor, T. E. |
| Compton, Joseph | Jones, F. Llewellyn (Flint) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Daggar, George | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Noel Baker, P. J. |
| Dallas, George | Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Oldfield, J. R. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) |
| Davies, E. C. (Montgomery) | Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Oliver, p. M. (Man., Blackley) |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Kedward, R. M. (Kent. Ashford) | Palin, John Henry |
| Devlin, Joseph | Kelly, W. T. | Paling, Wilfrid |
| Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Kennedy, Thomas | Perry, S. F. |
| Dukes, C. | Kinley, J. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. |
| Duncan, Charles | Lang, Gordon | Phillips, Dr. Marion |
| Ede, James Chuter | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Picton-Turbervill, Edith |
| Edmunds, J. E. | Lathan, G. | Potts, John S. |
| Edwards, E. (Morpeth) | Law, Albert (Bolton) | Pybus, Percy John |
| Egan, W. H. | Law, A. (Rossendale) | Quibell, D. J. K. |
| Elmley, Viscount | Lawrence, Susan | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) | Rathbone, Eleanor |
| Foot, Isaac | Lawson, John James | Raynes, W. R. |
| Freeman, Peter | Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Richards, R. |
| Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) | Leach, W. | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) | Lee, Frank (Derby, N. E.) | Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) |
§ The House divided: Ayes, 258; Noes, 105.
| Ritson, J. | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) | Smith, W. R. (Norwich) | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| Romeril, H. G. | Snell, Harry | Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge) |
| Rosbotham, D. S. T. | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) | West, F. R. |
| Rowson, Guy | Sorensen, R. | Westwood, Joseph |
| Salter, Dr. Alfred | Stamford, Thomas W. | White, H. G. |
| Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Darwen) | Stephen, Campbell | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| Samuel, H. W. (Swansea, West) | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe | Whiteley, William (Blaydon) |
| Sandham, E. | Strauss, G. R. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Sawyer, G. F. | Sutton, J. E. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Sexton, James | Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S. W.) | Williams Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Thurtle, Ernest | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Sherwood, G. H. | Tillett, Ben | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| Shield, George William | Tinker, John Joseph | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Shiels, Dr. Drummond | Toole, Joseph | Winterton, G. E. (Leicester, Loughb'gh) |
| Shillaker, J. F. | Tout, W. J. | Wise, E. F. |
| Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | Townend, A. E | Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff) |
| Simmons, C. J. | Turner, B. | Wright, W. (Rutherglen) |
| Sitch, Charles H. | Vaughan, D. J. | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Smith, Alfred (Sunderland) | Viant, S. P. | |
| Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) | Wallace, H. W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) | Watkins, F. C. | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. Charles Edwards. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Edmondson, Major A. J | Muirhead, A. J. |
| Albery, Irving James | Elliot, Major Walter E. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l, W.) | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s. M.) | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) |
| Allen, W. E. D. (Belfast, W.) | Everard, W. Lindsay | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Ferguson, Sir John | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Fison, F. G. Clavering | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Atkinson, C. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Frauds E. | Reynolds, Col. Sir James |
| Balniel, Lord | Ganzoni, Sir John | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Gibson, C. G. (Pudsey & Otley) | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. |
| Bevan, s. J. (Holborn) | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Salmon, Major I. |
| Bird, Ernest Roy | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Skelton, A. N. |
| Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Boyce, H. L. | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Smithers, Waldron |
| Bracken, B. | Haslam, Henry C. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Castle Stewart, Earl of | Iveagh, Countess of | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Colville, Major D. J. | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Knox, Sir Alfred | Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey) |
| Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. | Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Llewellin, Major J. J. | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Long, Major Eric | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lymington, Viscount | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Dairymple-White. Lt.-Col. Sir Godfrey | Margesson, Captain H. D. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) | Marjoribanks, E. C. | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Merriman, Sir F. Boyd | Womersley, W. J. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Mitchell-Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Duckworth, G. A. V. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. | |
| Dugdale, Capt. T. L. | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Sir Frederick Thomson and Sir |
| George Penny. |