HC Deb 06 February 1929 vol 224 cc1759-61
40. Mr. BUCHANAN

asked the Minister of Labour, if he is aware that persons who have unemployment claims throughout the country, and particularly in Glasgow, are asked to appear before an official called the insurance officer; that he subjects the claimant to a severe cross-examination, asking questions to find out if the person is genuinely seeking work; that the Report is then submitted to the courts of referees by this officer containing only part of the unemployed person's claim; that this insurance officer does not appear in person to substantiate his written statement; and that the court in most cases take the view of the insurance officer; and if he will take steps to set up a committee of inquiry into this system or, if not, will he take steps to establish another method of settling claims?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

I do not recognise the procedure in the description which the hon. Member gives. Persons claiming benefit are required by the Unemployment Insurance Acts to prove that they satisfy the statutory conditions, and they must, therefore, be interviewed and, if necessary, questioned. But I know of no ground for supposing that the procedure is conducted otherwise than quite fairly and with every desire to do full justice to the claimant, while protecting the Unemployment Fund from improper claims.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he is now claiming for these courts of referees privileges which do not apply in the ordinary courts of law? In an ordinary court of law a person who makes a statement must submit to be cross-examined. if need be, by the person who is the subject of the statement he has made, and will he not see that in these courts of referees the person who has made a statement must attend the court in order that he may be cross-examined?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

If the hon. Member has any suggestions to make with regard to procedure in the courts of referees, I wish he would let me have them, and I will consider them in order to see whether they can be adopted; but I could not possibly give any answer in advance as to altering procedure.

Mr. BUCHANAN

But, seeing that the right hon. Gentleman is claiming immunity from criticism in this House for these courts of referees, will he not take steps to see that the procedure is similar to that in ordinary courts of law in this respect, that a man should be placed in at least as good a position as he would be in any other court?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

I must ask for notice of any question such as that.

Mr. BROAD.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman responsible for the appointment of these referees, and is it not his Department which decides how many days they sit?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

I am responsible for the appointments.

Mr. MACLEAN

Arising out of the first reply, is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that statements are signed by insurance officers and submitted to the courts of referees, and that the applicants have no opportunity of cross-examining those officers or challenging the statements which they have signed and submitted? Will he not see to it that applicants arc given a fairer chance of making their ease clear to the court of referees by requiring that the insurance officer should be present in order to substantiate the statements on the paper which have been signed by him?

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

If the hon. Member will communicate with me or put down a question, I will consider his suggestion. When a decision of the court of referees is called into question, I must have notice of the question.

Mr. BUCHANAN

rose—

Mr. SPEAKER

The Minister has already asked that further questions on this subject should be put on the Paper.

Mr. BUCHANAN

With all due respect to the Minister and to you, I submit that the Minister has not answered that part of my question which asks whether he is prepared to set up a committee of inquiry. May I ask if he will kindly answer that part of the question?

Mr. SPEAKER

If there is any part of the question to which he has not received an answer, the hon. Member is entitled to put a supplementary question, but I do not think it is useful to have a number of supplementary questions on exactly the same lines.

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

I certainly am not prepared to set up a committee of inquiry, but I am quite prepared to look into any points which hon. Members bring to my attention.

Mr. KIRKWOOD

Is the Minister aware that, since this re-arrangement with regard to the court of referees, workers in my constituency, which is eight miles away from Glasgow, have now to go from Clydebank to Glasgow before the court of referees—

Mr. SPEAKER

That question does not arise out of the question on the Paper.