DEPARTMENT OF OVERSEAS TRADE. (Hansard, 19 November 1928)

§ Mr. HACKING
This is purely a token Vote. The necessity for the Supplementary Estimate is in connection with an extension of the British Industries Fair. The financial procedure of this House lays it down that if we are to spend more money we must ask permission to do so, in spite of the fact that the net result will probably mean a great saving to the country. We shall probably get a great deal more from the letting of the space than it will cost us to let the space. The result of this Supplementary Estimate will mean that the State will be the gainer.

§ Mr. LUNN
I think the Minister might have told us something about the Imperial Institute. There has been a great charge in the government of the Imperial Institute.

§ Mr. HACKING
This has nothing to do with the Imperial Institute; it relates to the British Industries Fair. The heading has to be the same as the heading of the main Vote. That is the reason why the name of the Imperial Institute is used. There is nothing in this Supplementary Estimate which deals with the Imperial Institute.

§ Mr. LUNN
As the Resolution was read out from the Chair the Imperial institute was mentioned, and I understood that the Minister was dealing with the Imperial Institute. As the Vote is connected with the British Industries Fair, the Minister might have taken advantage of this opportunity to give publicity to the Fair. As I understand it, the Fair is developing year after year. More space is needed every year 1495 for the Fair and more traders are taking part in it. It would be interesting to know, not only the amount of space but the different industries which are taking part in the Fair. The Minister might have told us whether the Fair is being carried on without a loss. Moreover, the Fair is so important in connection with the advertising of the various industries that we might consider whether there is any method of improving it in the interests of traders and in the interests of the general public as a whole. As a visitor to the Fair I have felt that it would be much better if goods were sold at the Fair. At the present time, that is not so. Innumerable articles are on exhibition at the Fair which are not yet in the shops and it would be an advantage to the people who visit the Fair if they could have an opportunity of making purchases there. I wish the Government had taken advantage of the opportunity to have a permanent place for such an exhibition in connection with Government Departments. They might have done very well by having a place like the White City for the holding of permanent exhibitions of this kind. I hope there will be a stall at the Fair which will devote itself to advertising. There is plenty of room for improvements in advertising in this country and a Fair of this description affords an opportunity for extensions and improvements in that direction. The Fair is well worth holding and I do not in any way object to the Vote

§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY
I do not find myself in complete agreement with the hon. Member for Rothwell (Mr. Lunn). While I agree that the British Industries Fair is a very good thing, I object to it being held year after year in Birmingham. I notice that the Secretary of State for the Dominions is present at this rather unusual hour. This is an unusual subject to bring him here. I could understand the President of the Board of Trade or the Foreign Secretary being here, seeing that the Minister in charge of the Overseas Trade Department is responsible to the Foreign Office and the Board of Trade. Why is the Secretary of State for the Dominions here? Is it to see that there is no weakening of the Department towards the city of Birmingham? Why 1496 should Birmingham always have this Fair? The object of the Fair is not for us to sell to each other but to attract foreign buyers. The attempt is to copy the famous Leipzig Fair, and I hope we shall be even more successful than Leipzig. The nearest central point to the continent of Europe is the city of Hull.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN
The hon. and gallant Member apparently forgets that this is a Supplementary Estimate. It is on the original Estimate that the policy of the Fair must be discussed. The only point that arises now is why the extra money is wanted.

§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY
I shall keep strictly within the limits of order. If we are bound to have the Fair in Birmingham, why not spend the extra £11,000 on extra space in a secondary exhibition in some other city? I only mentioned Hull because it is most convenient for the Continental markets. Why should not Glasgow, Sheffield and Manchester have their turn? There might be two or three fairs running at the same time. I am told that this has been considered. Instead of spending money on extra space in Birmingham, I would have liked to have seen the money spent in a preliminary survey of suitable buildings in other cities. I do not like to see this very close estimating. The original Estimate was for £73,000 and the Appropriations-in-Aid £145,930. Were these Appropriations-in-Aid in connection with the British Industries Fair? If so, quite apart from the fillip given to British commerce, we made an actual profit. If we are making money, I should like to extend the operation. I am all for Government enterprise that makes money, and if it competes with private enterprise, that does not disturb me in the least. If we are making money out of Government enterprise, I want to extend that enterprise, not only for making money, but for training a commercialised civil service for the purpose of nationalising interests in this country.

§ Mr. HACKING
We are not making money; we are holding our own. There has been £25,000 spent for advertising. This Supplementary Estimate has nothing whatever to do with Birmingham. Birmingham pays for its own Fair. This is the City of London Fair. Birmingham pays for her own fair, except as far as advertising is concerned.

§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY
If that is the case, I apologise; I misunderstood the position. Would it be possible for Birmingham to hold the Fair without the aegis of the Overseas Department? Would it be possible for Leeds to start a fair without the approval of the Overseas Trade Department?

§ Mr. HACKING
If Hull wishes to hold a fair of this kind, the application will receive consideration, but it is very bad policy to spread your industries fairs all over the country. You will not get foreign business men to attend them all, and it is much better to concentrate in one or two centres. Birmingham has taken a very big building—I am afraid I am entirely out of order.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member is not adhering very closely to the Vote.

§ Mr. HACKING
I am afraid I am out of order. I was led away by the hon. and gallant Member. Perhaps he will talk with me privately about it. The original Estimate was based on the assumption that 280,000 square feet would be let in London and we have already let 287,115 feet. We have exceeded the amount under the old Estimate and that is the reason why we are acting for this advance. We hope that before February, when the fair is opened, there will be at least 325,000 square feet let in connection with the London fair.

§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY
The hon. Member has answered all my questions except one. He did not really explain the Appropriations-in-Aid. He says that the fair pays for itself except for the advertising. Does that mean that we are only losing the advertising and that the rest is self supporting?

§ Mr. HACKING
Yes. It only costs us £25,000 in advertising. The reason why it appears a little difficult to understand is that none of the other Sub-heads are put in the Supplementary Estimate except Sub-head E1. If the hon. and gallant Member will look at the main Estimate he will see the various Subheads set out in E1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, and there is a large sum of money which goes to balance the Appropriations-in-Aid.