§ 24. Mr. DAYasked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether any arrangements are being made by the Government to defray the costs incurred by Oscar Slater in the hearing of his appeal; whether he has received any communications on the subject; and, if so, will lie give the House particulars?
§ The SECRETARY of STATE for SCOTLAND (Sir John Gilmour)The amount of the ex-gratia grant of £6,000 to Mr. Slater was fixed after due consideration of all the circumstances, and the Government do not intend to make any further payment to him. I have had representations on the subject from Sir A. Conan Doyle, and a copy of a resolution stated to have been passed at a public meeting in Eastbourne.
§ Mr. DAYCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether, when this ex-gratia payment was made, any condition was made as regards the costs to be paid out of it?
§ Sir J. GILMOURIt. was made perfectly clear that this was the total sum that would be paid by the Government.
§ Mr. MACLEANIs Oscar Slater to pay the costs of clearing his name out of the sum which the Government gave him as an ex-gratia payment?
§ Sir J. GILMOURI have said that the Government, in making this ex-gratia payment, took account of all the circumstances arising out of the case.
§ Mr. MACLEANMay I ask for a reply, which surely can he definitely given, to my supplementary question, namely, is Oscar Slater to pay the costs of bringing this action to clear his name out of the £6,000 given as an ex-gratia payment by the Government? Let us know that.
§ Sir J. GILMOURYes, Sir. The £6,000 is given as an ex-gratia payment, and is the largest payment ever given in similar circumstances.
§ Mr. MACLEANDoes the right hon. Gentleman wish this House or the country to understand that their generosity only extends to £6,000, out of which the costs of action must be paid, for imposing a 21-years' sentence upon a man who has to be released when £5,000 is given to a man who is unjustly imprisoned for only three years?
§ Mr. DAYHas the right hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn to the fact that the costs of this case and the inquiries came to almost as much as the ex-gratia payment?
§ Sir J. GILMOURThat is not a matter that we can take into account now. The 673 whole subject was carefully considered at the time, and the sum allocated included all the circumstances of the case.
§ Mr. DAYIs it the case that all that the Government desired to do in this matter was just to refund the expenditure that was incurred in clearing this man's name?
Sir F. HALLIs not my right hon. Friend in a position to refute the statement that has been made that the costs in connection with this action amounted to almost the ex-gratia payment that has been made by the Government, and is it not a shame that such a statement should be made?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Secretary of State for Scotland has given his answer.
§ Sir J. GILMOURIf I may, I would say that, of course, we have no knowledge of what the total costs may have been for those who carried out the defence, but the whole of the circumstances of the case were taken into consideration in accordance with precedent in dealing with these matters, and the total sum was allocated accordingly.
§ Mr. T. SHAWMay I ask the right. hon. Gentleman what he means by taking all the circumstances into consideration w hen he admits that he does not know the costs of the defence?
§ Mr. SCRYMGEOURMay I ask if the statement is anything like approximately true that the ex-gratia payment does not cover the amount of the expenses? Is it anything like true?
§ Mr. DAYBefore the right hon. Gentleman answers, may I ask if he can give to the House particulars of the costs that the Government themselves had to pay for their own investigation?
§ Sir J. GILMOURIn reply to the question of the hon. Member for Dundee (Mr. Scrymgeour), I have explained that I have no knowledge of what the total costs may have been—
§ Mr. SCRYMGEOURIs it something like it?
§ Sir J. GILMOURThis ex-gratia payment was based upon precedent, and, following wholly on that precedent, was more generous than any which had been given before.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Secretary of State for Scotland has stated that this is The largest sum paid according to precedent.
§ Mr. MACLEANOn a point of Order. Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly state to the House what is the precedent that applies to a similar case in Scotland?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is not a point of Order. These further questions must be put on the Paper.
§ Mr. MACLEANThe questions are here on the Paper, and the right hon. Gentleman cannot answer them.