§ 91. Mr. W. THORNEasked the Home Secretary if he is aware that Mrs. Pace, Forest of Dean, and her two children were ordered by the police to proceed to Coleford Police Station to be interrogated by Scotland Yard officers, which lasted for 13 hours; that the children were in bed at the time, with the result that the family left the house without any breakfast; that the children were interrogated separately and apart from their mother; and if he will state whether it is his intention to include this case for investigation in the terms of reference to the proposed Court of Inquiry which he intends setting up to investigate the methods adopted by Scotland Yard?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe inquest in this case has ended in the committal of a person for trial and, for the time being, I can only refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to him on the 26th March. The terms of reference for the general inquiry are not settled, but it is unlikely that they will be such as to exclude consideration of the matters referred to in the hon. Member's question.
§ Mr. THORNEAre the instructions for what is known as the third degree inquiry issued from the Home Office, or are they done by the Chief of the Metropolitan Police?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSNeither one nor the other. There are no such instructions issued, and never have been; and whenever I have heard of any complaints, I have always said that nothing of the kind should occur. In this case, although the hon. Member has forced me to say it while the woman is under committal for trial, it is only fair to the police to state that, in the course of her examination at the inquest, she not only did not complain, but thanked the police for the consideration which they had shown her.
§ Mr. THORNEIt is not a question of this or of any other woman. I want to know, when they are about to make these third degree inquiries, whether the Chief of the Police is absolutely responsible for giving the instructions to his officers to carry on this wicked system?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI entirely deny that there is anything in the nature of third degree in this country at all. On the contrary, it is quite untrue, and the hon. Member really ought not to make such statements.
§ Miss WILKINSONDoes the right hon. Gentleman think it reasonable to keep two children at the police station for 13 hours, and cannot he instruct the police to use ordinary courtesy in these matters, and to see that the children are at least properly fed?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI did make certain inquiries in this case, and, as I told the hon. Member, the woman in question really thanked the police for the consideration which they had shown her. The question of the children is a new one to me, and I will, if the hon. Member wishes, make inquiries into that point.
§ Miss WILKINSONDoes the right hon. Gentleman consider that the statement of the woman thanking the police, after having undergone that 13 hours, can really be taken as an expression of thanks for courtesy, because the poor woman would be in such a condition that she would be only too thankful to get away?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSIf the hop. Member read the report of the inquest, she would find a statement by this woman in regard to the very question that has been raised here.
§ Mr. COMPTONCan the right hon. Gentleman say, if no third degree methods were used, whether either first, second, fourth, fifth or sixth degree methods were used?