HC Deb 08 March 1928 vol 214 cc1390-2

Resolution reported; That it is expedient to provide for the application to persons in the Diplomatic Service of the Superannuation Acts, 1834 to 1919, and to authorise in the case of such persons the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of allowances and gratuities under those Acts as so applied.

Resolution read a Second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Mr. BUCHANAN

May I ask one question? To-day we were told by the Prime Minister that there was no intention of keeping the House late to-night. I want to ask the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether, in view of the fact that we have some observations to make on this matter, he will not withdraw the Resolution and bring it on another night and so keep the Prime Minister's pledge?

The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Arthur Michael Samuel)

I think the Resolution is quite uncontroversial.

Mr. BUCHANAN

No.

Mr. SAMUEL

It rests with the hon. Gentlemen opposite whether they prolong the proceedings or not.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Is the Financial Secretary not aware of the pledge which was given to-day to the Leader of the Opposition, who asked the Prime Minister if he intended to go on with the discussion of this Resolution and who received the reply that there was no in- tention of keeping the House late tonight? I want to know if the hon. Gentleman is going to implement the Prime Minister's pledge.

Mr. SAMUEL

I understood the Prime Minister to say that he hoped to get the Resolution but did not propose to keep the House unduly late.

Mr. BUCHANAN

Some of us, if we had been as mean as the answer, could quite easily have continued discussing the Lapwings Bill until after 12 o'clock—or the Army Estimates—and it was because we believed the Chief Whip, who usually treats these things fairly, would carry out the promise, that we allowed the Lapwings Bill to go through. In the interests of decency a promise that is made ought to be carried out.

Mr. LAWSON

I myself was assured that the main reason for suspending the Standing Order was to pass the Lapwings Bill, and I think that was the general impression in the House—that is, after the Army Estimates had been disposed of. Therefore, I suggest that we should postpone discussion of this Motion.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

I was present during the Committee stage of the Resolution, and what happened was this. My hon. Friend the Member for Dumbarton Burghs (Mr. Kirkwood) rose to put a certain question and your deputy, Sir—within his rights, of course, I make no complaint, nor does my hon. Friend—imagined that that was the end of the discussion, and put the Question. There were protests and, in fact, a division was called, but was not taken. Several of my hon. Friends had observations to make on this subject. I was present during the Committee stage and I have said all that I want to, but I put this consideration to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, who was present and knows what happened, and knows that there is something to be raised on this Motion. I ask that it should be postponed. The discussion on it when it does come up need not be a long one.

Mr. SAMUEL

The hon. and gallant Member seems to have overlooked the fact that this is a money Resolution and that there is no need to suspend the Eleven o'Clock Rule in order to take it. The Eleven o'Clock Rule was not suspended in order to get this through, because there was no need for it, and therefore we cannot be accused of breaking faith in any possible way.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

If that is the case, then the hon. Member has no complaint to make if we discuss it. I would recall that I put two arguments forward on the Committee stage which were not replied to. What we feel rather keenly is this; The maximum pension under this proposal is £1,700 a year and we cannot help comparing that with the pensions paid to other citizens of this country who are to-day suffering very severely indeed. The proposal allows a diplomatist to draw a pension at the age of 60—this is the point the hon. Member has not replied to—whereas there are 328,000 workers in industry over 65 years of age who cannot retire because they get a pension of 10s. only, and they are keeping younger men out of work. That is our objection to the Measure, and that is the point we wish to raise, and I invite the hon. Member to reply to that.

Mr. SAMUEL

Perhaps I can shorten the discussion. If hon. Members press their point I have not the slightest objection to giving way, and to withdrawing the Motion, but it will mean hanging this matter up and may produce some hardship to those who are concerned.

Ordered. "That the Debate be now adjourned.—[Mr. Lawson.]

Debate to be resumed To-morrow.

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

It being after half-past Eleven of the cluck upon Thursday, Mr. SPEAKER, adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at two minutes after Twelve o'clock.