§ 72. Mr. MAXTONasked the Home Secretary if any contravention of the China Order in Council, 1925, in regard to trafficking in arms has been reported to his Department; and, if so, what steps does he propose to take?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSNo, Sir. The Commissioner of Police has informed 1258 me of certain communications, but at present there appears to be no ground for action on his part or mine.
§ Mr. MAXTONDo I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that the Commissioner before whom the statements have been made proposes to make no further investigation at all?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSNo, I did not say that he intended to make no further investigation. I understood the hon. Member to mean proceedings, and at present I see no ground for proceedings either on behalf of the Commissioner or of myself. If the hon. Member or the body which sent these communications are prepared to substantiate them and make a criminal case against the man concerned in the question, of course, I will go into the matter further.
§ Mr. MAXTONIf the persons concerned have placed before the right hon. Gentleman prima facie evidence that this has taken place, is it not the duty of his Department to make the fullest investigation into the allegation?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI have made investigation into this case, and the information that I have received is that the man in question, who caused the communication to be made to the Commissioner through the "New Leader" is an ex-convict, who has had several convictions against him for obtaining money by-false pretences, and at present we think he is pulling the leg of the hon. Member's frisnds.
§ Mr. MAXTONDoes the right hon. Gentleman's Department regard this as another attempt to procure money by false pretences?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSAt present we are not satisfied that the case is really as serious as the hon. Member's friends have suggested it is. We are not satisfied that it is not a bogus case put up by the man in question, the ex-convict, but if the hon. Member or his friends can give me any evidence which will really lead to the conclusion that this is a good case in which to take proceedings, proceedings will be taken.
§ Mr. MAXTONIf I assure the right hon. Gentleman that this British subject definitely offered to sell arms to Chinese representatives in this country, presum- 1259 ably for using against this country, is not that sufficient evidence for him to take the proper steps?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThe whole question is whether it was a genuine attempt to sell arms to Chinese subjects. If I am satisfied about that, proceedings will be taken at once, but at present I am not satisfied that it is a genuine offer at all, but think it may be merely an attempt to pull the leg of the hon. Member's friends.
§ Mr. HAYESIs the right hon. Gentleman acting on the advice of the Director of Public Prosecutions?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSI think that is not a question that can be put.
§ Mr. HAYESMay I ask whether, in fact, the case has been referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSNo, I think not. In regard to a case where criminal proceedings are, as it were, hovering in the balance, I cannot say more than I have said.
§ Miss LAWRENCEIf this was an imposture, did it not resolve itself into an attempt to obtain money for certain people, Chinese, by false pretences, and will the right hon. Gentleman give that aspect of the case his careful consideration?
§ Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKSThat is the very aspect that I am prepared to consider. I am quite willing to direct consideration of proceedings, either for a breach of the law in regard to selling arms to the Chinese, or for obtaining money by false pretences; but at present I am not satisfied which is the right leg to stand upon.
§ Mr. TAYLOROn a point of Order. Is the use of the term "pulling one's leg" a Parliamentary expression?
§ Mr. SPEAKERI see no reason to object to it.