§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Baldwin)I beg to move,
That during the remainder of the Session—I had intended to move that the House do meet to-morrow at eleven o'clock, as I thought it would be for the great convenience of hon. Members and the staff of the House, but I understand that the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition objects. That being so, it would not be in Order for me to move that Motion as I have not put it down on the Order Paper. I propose, therefore, to ask the House to consider the Motion which stands in my name. It is an annual. Motion which every Government puts forward in order to secure all the time during an Autumn Session. I gave the reasons last year for the benefit of those who were new Members, and I do not think it is necessary to say anything more now, except this, that an Autumn Session is always a continuation of the Session which began in the early part of the year, and which is necessary for the completion of business left unfinished when the House adjourned in August. If no Motion of this kind were passed the Rules of Order would be the same as those which obtain before Whitsuntide, and there would still be probably two evenings in the week 255 devoted to private Members' time. Every Government, when they arrange the time necessary for the Autumn Session, make the calculation on the basis that die Government have all the time available. Supposing so much time were given to private Members, it merely means that the House would have to come back a week or two earlier that the time fixed when we parted in the summer. May I remind the House that under the Rules that exist from Whitsuntide until the Adjournment a private Member has, and will have if this Motion be passed, the same privileges with regard to moving the Adjournment on matters of urgent public importance, of moving an Address praying for the Amendment of such Regulations as may be made in pursuance of any Act of Parliament, and it does not interfere with his rights on the half-hour Adjournment on the rising of the House at Eleven o'Clock.
- (1) Government Business do have precedence;
- (2) At the conclusion of Government Business or of Proceedings made in pursuance of any Act of Parliament requiring an Order, Rule or Regulation to be laid before the House of Commons, which shall be taken immediately after Government Business, Mr. Speaker shall propose the Question, That this House do now adjourn, and, if that Question shall not have been agreed to, Mr. Speaker shall adjourn the House, without Question put, not later than one hour after the conclusion of Government Business, if that Business has been concluded before 10.30 p.m., but, if that Business has not been so concluded, not later than 11.30 p.m."
§ Mr. RAMSAY MacDONALDPerhaps, Mr. Speaker, you will allow me to follow the Prime Minister, and make a preliminary observation on what I have to say on the Motion now before the House. The preliminary observation of the Prime Minister was that he had intended to move, in the interests of the staff of the House, that the House should meet to-morrow at Eleven o'Clock, and he intimated, quite truly, that I objected. I should like to say that my objection was not based on the grounds he suggested at all, but because I thought it may be more advantageous for the House to meet on Wednesday, and not adjourn to-morrow afternoon. It was on that ground that I objected to the proposal. With reference to the Motion before the House, of course it has now become an annual Resolution, and it is well known that any Government that is facing an Autumn Session will have to move a Motion such as this, to take all the time of the House. What I would like to say is that this is a very unusual time for moving this Motion. It is usually moved at the beginning of the Autumn Session itself, when we are close up to the public business to be transacted, and when the political landscape is more or less well defined. When we know what the Government propose to do, we are in a much better position to say what subjects we should like to have discussed 256 —to be perfectly frank, to bargain about them. It is the usual thing, and nobody knows it better than hon. Members opposite. But here we are at the end of September, and the House is not going to meet for the Autumn Session until the 9th of November. Who can tell what is going to happen? I hope a General Election will happen, though I am afraid my expectation will not be fulfilled, for a very good reason, so far as the Government are concerned. But in any event I am not in a position to-day—I say it quite candidly—to say to the Prime Minister or to the Government, upon what subjects I would like to get a statement from them, or what I should like to discuss in the Autumn Session. It is too remote, but I think he ought to have been a little more candid with us and told us what he wants to discuss in the Autumn Session. It is not usual for the Government to get a blank cheque in this way. I was not able to take down his words exactly, but I observed—[An HON. MEMBER: "There is the Order Paper"]—I know there are plenty of things on the Order Paper, but can we have a pledge that nothing else will go on the Order Paper? I should like to have it. Will I get the pledge? I was not able to take down exactly what the Prime Minister said, but I understood him to say that ah Autumn Session was going to be held for the purpose of completing business, Government business. Does that mean that he is going to introduce no new business? Is he going to be content with completing the stages of the Bills that have begun their passage through this House, or is he really asking us to pass this Resolution now in order to enable him to introduce fresh legislation? I think the House ought to know. There is no reason, as a matter of fact, why this Resolution should be put down to-day.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI would remind the right hon. Gentleman that, if it be not passed to-day, to-morrow becomes a Private Member's day.
§ Mr. MacDONALDNo.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI beg your pardon; I meant Wednesday.
§ Mr. MacDONALDNot to-morrow, but Wednesday. That is perfectly true. I know the reason perfectly well, but, as a matter of fact, it is not necessary to have 257 this Resolution passed to-day. It is not necessary for the 9th November to have it passed to-day. It can be put down later. I am sorry to say that there is a chance of the House meeting before the 9th November again. I am very-sorry to say that the chances are, as things now are, as the outlook now is, that this House will meet at the end of October, in order to pass what it is going to pass to-morrow. Therefore, there is no need for this Resolution to-day at all. But in any event, when the Resolution is put before us, when it is seriously put before us, it is the duty a the Prime Minister to tell us what business he proposes to take when he gets the power for which he asks under this Resolution. As we have not had that to-day, and as I do not believe it is necessary to have it to-day, I shall certainly oppose the Resolution.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEI am very glad that the Prime Minister has given an undertaking that we shall not meet at eleven o'clock to-morrow with a view to separation at five. In the very critical stage that the serious industrial dispute by which we are now affected has reached, it is very desirable that the House of Commons should take the whole of the circumstances under review, and I think it is time that Parliament should feel its full responsibility to the nation in this matter, as it has done many a time before in industrial disputes which were not so grave as the one with which we are now confronted. I pass away from that to the Motion of the Prime Minister. That Motion has been proposed by the Leader of the House for a great many Sessions now, and it has always been the occasion of a review of the prospects in front of us. It is the occasion which the Leader of the House of Commons always seizes to tell the House what business it has to go through —always. I have never seen it introduced in the way in which the Prime Minister introduced it to-day, without giving the slightest indication of what he proposes to do with the time of the House, which, under this Resolution, will be placed entirely at the disposal of the Government. It is the great occasion that was known as the "Massacre of the Innocents" in the old days, when the Government went through the whole of the legislative programmes and indicated 258 what Bills were to be dropped and what Bills the Government intended to press through.
This, after all, is an emergency Session. It is called for one specific reason, which has been rendered necessary by a legislative enactment dealing with the Emergency Regulations, and I should have thought that this Resolution is one which ought to be dealt with at the beginning of the Autumn Session, when the Government could take the House of Commons into their confidence, as all Governments have done, and tell the House what the business was going to be and what Bills they proposed to press through. The Government have given us no indication at all of their intentions. For instance, there are very important matters. What legislation do the Government propose to introduce to deal with the present emergency? A National Board Bill, or the redemption of the remaining pledges they have given with regard to the Commission Report? Is there any legislation to be introduced of that character? This is the occasion upon which the Leaders of the House of Commons have always taken the House into their confidence with regard to things of that kind. The Prime Minister has given only one reason why he should use an emergency Session for dealing with something which has always taken practically three or four hours' discussion in almost every House of Commons in which I have ever been.
What is his excuse? His excuse is that, unless he does it, Wednesday will be a private Members' day, but he must know that that is really a very inadequate excuse. There are means by which he can easily take the time of the House on a private Members' day by another Resolution, if necessary, and I do ask the Leader of the House whether it is not more in accordance with precedent that he should put off this Resolution to the beginning of the Autumn Session, and, if he has to take the time of the House on Wednesday, let him put down the ordinary Resolution, which can be taken to-morrow. I do not suppose it would take very much time.
But there are many questions which we should like to ask the Government, with regard, for instance, to what has happened at Geneva. There are two or three matters of supreme importance bearing 259 upon what has happened there, but is it desirable that we should go into all that matter when we have met for another purpose, and is it not better that the Government should confine themselves—it is as much as the Government and the House of Commons can do—to concentrating upon that other purpose to pull us through? Is it not desirable that, instead of raising all sorts of other issues, the Government should withdraw this Resolution, introduce it at the usual time, and in accordance with the usual precedent, and take the time on Wednesday, if they want it?
§ The PRIME MINISTERIn answer to the right hon. Gentleman, I certainly have no recollection of such statements as he said having been made at the time that this Motion was put. I did not do it last year, and it was not done the year before, but still it may be done sometimes. Last year certainly it was not done, and the discussion did not take four hours, but about two, and I can see no reason at all for not asking the House to take this decision now. I did not give as a reason the question of private Members' time on Wednesday. I simply reminded the Leader of the Opposition—I was under a misapprehension in thinking the day was Tuesday—that that was one of the points which one contemplated would have to be provided for. However, this Resolution will provide for it, and, in addition, it will save the time of the House.
Captain BENNThe Prime Minister forgets it is only by the merest accident that he is able to take this Resolution to-day. It was never intended for an Emergency Session. It was put down for the 9th November, the Agenda for which has not anticipated any Emergency Session. It appears, therefore, that he has taken advantage of the circumstances to press forward a piece of business which is properly done at the beginning of the Autumn Session. Are we to surrender the rights under this Resolution, so that it becomes impossible for us to know whether we can get any information with
§ regard to any question of interest, not merely to leaders of the Opposition, but to private Members as well? I should like to know whether, for example, under this Resolution, the right hon. Gentleman intends to press forward the Merchandise Marks Bill during the Autumn Session, because, if so, he will want more than all the time of the House of Commons. I would also like to ask him whether, on this occasion, or, if not, on what occasion, the Foreign Secretary intends to explain the remarkable speech which he made when he castigated the Mandates Commission of the League for asking for the rights of minorities to be respected before the Council of the Assembly in Geneva. I would further like to know what opportunity he intends to take to explain the policy of the Government in China, where, it appears, movements are going forward which may easily lead us into a position which would certainly not be approved by many people in this country. I think those are legitimate questions such as are usually put when this Motion is moved at the beginning of the Autumn Session, and I do beg the Prime Minister, or someone on his behalf, to reply to hon. Members in this House, who, after all, have some, though rapidly diminishing, rights.
§
Question put,
That during the remainder of the Session—
§ The House divided: Ayes, 237; Noes, 122.
263| Division No. 435.] | AYES. | [3.33 p.m |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Atholl, Duchess of |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley |
| Albery, Irving James | Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Balfour, George (Hampstead) |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. | Barclay-Harvey, C. M. |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Goff, Sir Park | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Grace, John | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Graham, Frederick F. (Cumbld., N.) | Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) |
| Berry, Sir George | Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (W'th's'w, E) | Philipson, Mabel |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) | Pilcher, G. |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Grotrian, H. Brent. | Pilditch, Sir Philip |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Gunston, Captain D. W. | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Blundell, F. N. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Preston, William |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Price, Major C. W. M. |
| Bowater, Colonel Sir T. Vansittart | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Radford, E. A. |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B. | Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Raine, W. |
| Braithwaite, A. N. | Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) | Ramsden, E. |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Hawke, John Anthony | Remer, J. R. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Remnant, Sir James |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Rentoul, G. S. |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Rice, Sir Frederick |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Herbert, S. (York, N. R., Scar. & Wh'by) | Roberts, E. H. G. (Flint) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) | Ropner, Major L. |
| Burman, J. B. | Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Rye, F. G. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Holland, Sir Arthur | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Caine, Gordon Hall | Holt, Capt. H. P. | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Campbell, E. T. | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Cassels, J. D. | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Sandon, Lord |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Hopkins, J. W. W. | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) | Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities) | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) | Slaney, Major P. Kenyon |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N). | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Hudson, R. S. (Cumb'l'nd, Whiteh'n) | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Hume, Sir G. H. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Hume-WIlliams, Sir W. Ellis | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Christie, J. A. | Hurd, Percy A. | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Hurst, Gerald B. | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.) |
| Clayton, G. C. | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. F. S. | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Storry-Deans, R. |
| Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Jacob, A. E. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Colfox, Major William Phillips | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Strickland, Sir Gerald |
| Cope, Major William | Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) | Styles, Captain H. Walter |
| Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Kindersley, Major G. M. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Crooke. J. Smedley (Deritend) | Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Tasker, Major R. Inigo |
| Cunliffe, Sir Herbert | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Templeton, W. P. |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- |
| Dalziel, Sir Davison | Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Tinne, J. A. |
| Davidson, J. (Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd) | Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) | MacIntyre, Ian | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Macquisten, F. A. | Waddington, R. |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | MacRobert, Alexander M. | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Dawson, Sir Phillip | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Malone, Major P. B. | Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) |
| Ellis, R. G. | Meller, R. J. | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) | Merriman, F. B. | Wells, S. R. |
| Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Wilson, M. J. (York, N. R., Richm'd) |
| Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Fanshawe, Commander G. D. | Moreing, Captain A. H. | Winby, Colonel L. P. |
| Fermoy, Lord | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Fielden, E. B. | Murchison, C. K. | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Finburgh, S. | Nall, Colonel Sir Joseph | Withers, John James |
| Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Foster, Sir Harry S. | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak) |
| Fraser, Captain Ian | Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld.) | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Frece, Sir Walter de | Nuttall, Ellis | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Galbraith, J. F. W. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
| Ganzonl, Sir John. | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | |
| Gates, Percy | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Gilmour, Colonel Rt. Hon. Sir John | Pennefather, Sir John | Commander B. Eyres Monsell and Lord Stanley. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Baker, Walter | Bondfield, Margaret |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Briant, Frank |
| Ammon, Charles George | Barr, J. | Buchanan, G. |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Cape, Thomas |
| Charleton, H. C. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Clowes, S. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Slesser, Sir Henry H. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Smillie, Robert |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Kelly, W. T. | Smith, H. B. Lees- (Keighley) |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Kennedy, T. | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) |
| Compton, Joseph | Lansbury, George | Snell, Harry |
| Connolly, M. | Lawrence, Susan | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lawson, John James | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lee, F. | Stamford, T. W. |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Livingstone, A. M. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Lowth, T. | Sutton, J. E. |
| Dennison, R. | Lunn, William | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Donnico, H. | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| England, Colonel A. | MacLaren Andrew | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) |
| Fenby, T. D. | March, S. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Gardner, J. P. | Montague, Frederick | Tinker, John Joseph |
| George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Morris, R. H. | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P. |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Varley, Frank B. |
| Gillett, George M. | Murnin, H. | Viant, S. P. |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Naylor, T. E. | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Owen, Major G. | Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen |
| Greenall, T. | Palin, John Henry | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Paling, W. | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Westwood, J. |
| Groves, T. | Ponsonby, Arthur | Whiteley, W. |
| Grundy, T. W. | Potts, John S. | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Guest, Haden (Southwark, N.) | Purcell, A. A. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Hall, G H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Riley, Ben | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Hardie, George D. | Ritson, J. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Harris, Percy A. | Rose, Frank H. | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Sakiatvala, Shapurji | Windsor, Walter |
| Hayes, John Henry | Salter, Dr. Alfred | Wright, W. |
| Hirst, G. H. | Scrymgeour, E. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Scurr, John | |
| Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Sexton, James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. Charles Edwards. |
Question put, and agreed to.