HC Deb 30 March 1926 vol 193 cc1848-50
77. Mr. H. WILLIAMS

asked the Minister of Health the total amount provided by the Exchequer for National Health Insurance and for all other health services in the financial year 1913–14 and in the Estimates for 1926–27?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of HEALTH (Sir Kingsley Wood)

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the Official Report.

Following is the reply:

apply to those persons in exempted employment who become voluntary contributors under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act prior to that date?

Sir K. WOOD

Yes, Sir. The draft Regulations summarised in the Memorandum apply whether voluntary insurance is effected before or after January, 1928.

82. Mr. ROBINSON

asked the Minister of Health whether, seeing that Section 1 (1) (c) of the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act states that the pension of an insured person aged 65 shall be at the rate of 10s. a week, he will say under what Section of the Act it is proposed to reduce the pension payable to persons in exempted employment who become voluntary contributors at the age of 46 or upwards?

83. Mr. TOWNEND

asked the Minister of Health, seeing that Section 2 (3) of the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act provides that a person engaged in an exempted employment shall be deemed to be insured for the purposes of the Act, if he will state why persons in exempted employment, who become voluntary contributors paying the same contributions in respect of pensions as voluntary contributors who are not in exempted employment, will only receive pensions ranging from ls. to 10s. a week according to age at entry into insurance under the Act?

Sir K. WOOD

It is presumed that the hon. Members have in mind the case of persons in excepted employment. As stated by my right hon. Friend in reply to questions on this subject on 11th March, Section 15 (7) (b) of the Act expressly provides that in the case of the persons specified therein the provisions of the Act relating to old age pensions shall apply in such circumstances only and subject to such modifications as may be prescribed. The reason for this provision was explained in my right hon. Friend's previous reply.

Mr. TOWNEND

Is the hon. Member aware that as a result of the issuing of this instruction it is possible for one contributor who has subscribed for six years to receive only 2s. pension, whereas a contributor who has paid contributions for only three years can receive five times as much in the shape of pension? In these circumstances would the Minister be prepared to consider the advisability of withdrawing the instruction?

Sir K. WOOD

I cannot promise that, but if the hon Member has any case that he would like to send to me, I would gladly have it looked into.

Mr. TOWNEND

Is the Minister aware that this applies to thousands of cases in the railway service alone?

Sir K. WOOD

I am aware that it applies to a good many cases. The matter is now receiving our attention still further.

Mr. RHYS DAVIES

Is the hon. Member aware that many persons entered the scheme before the issue of the Circular, and that. they entered the scheme under a misapprehension in view of that fact, will he modify his attitude towards these proposals'?

Sir K. WOOD

There is no foundation for that statement, because the entries were under the Act of Parliament which specifically provides for this being done.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

Is the hon. Member aware that Members of this House were under the same misapprehension as these unfortunate people who have been putting their voluntary contributions into the scheme?

Sir K. WOOD

I am surprised to hear that.

Mr. TOWNEND

The Memorandum. was issued two months after the passing of the Act. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in that period of two months many sections of railway men who are excepted persons under the Act have taken advantage of what they thought was a good thing for them and are now paving contributions under a misapprehension?

Sir K. WOOD

No, Sir. I cannot agree with that, because all these applications were made under the provisions of. the Act. The Memorandum was only issued pursuant to the Section of the Act.

Mr. TOWNEND

Arising out of that answer—

Mr. SPEAKER

The matter cannot now be debated.