HC Deb 12 May 1925 vol 183 cc1737-48

I beg to move, in page 22, line 32, to leave out from the word "repair" to the end of Sub-section (3), and to insert instead thereof the words after the passing of this Act it shall be the duty of the General Trustees to undertake all the liabilities that were previously incumbent upon the heritors in that regard. The point which we are now about to discuss is much narrower, but involves at least as great a principle as that which we have just been discussing. We have heard a great deal this afternoon about the interest, or lack of interest, that is taken in this Bill in Scotland, but I can assure the Lord Advocate and the members of his party that, if they proceed to enforce Clause 28 as it stands, and if any large-scale enforcement does take place, there will be no lack of interest in this Bill in Scotland. It reminds me of the story of the Scottish ecclesiastic who came down to London on a visit, I think from the county represented by the hon. and learned Member for South Aberdeen (Mr. F. C. Thomson). This ecclesiastic, during a conversation with a celebrated clergyman of the Church of England, was asked by him about his parishioners, and amongst other things he was asked if his parishioners in the North feared God. He replied that, "He wasna sae sure o' that, but they were certainly fleggit o' the other fellow."

The ultimate amount of interest that may he taken in this Bill, as a result of the passage of Clause 28, may not be taken on ecclesiastical grounds, but it certainly will be aroused if hundreds of thousands of small cottage owners are to be compelled within the next three years to pay for the repair of manses of the Church. I quite agree that the Lord Advocate is on absolutely safe historical ground when he says that there is an ecclesiastical burden upon the large estates in Scotland. In order to find out the extent of that ecclesiastical burden, we have, as the Lord Advocate has already frequently done during the discussions on this Bill, to go back to the origin of these estates. We certainly have to go back to the time of the Reformation. We know that at the time of the Reformation the Church owned from one-half to one-third of the landed estates in Scotland, and John Knox and the Reformers believed that, as a result of the Reformation, the teinds would he used for three purposes—firstly, for the upkeep of the kirk; secondly, to support the disabled and aged poor, and to provide work for the unemployed—for never let the Lord Advocate forget that John Knox was the first pioneer of the Right to Work Bill in British public affairs and, thirdly, there was to come from the teinds provision for public elementary education.

John Knox was disappointed. After the Reformation, he discovered that the landowners who had supported him were not interested in an ecclesiastical Reformation at all, but that the landowners were out to collar the estates of the old Church. If there be any dispute with that historically, I have a quotation here from Professor Hill Burton, who will, I am sure, be accepted by hon. Members opposite as a historian who would not have an undue bias against the landowners of Scotland. He says this: The Protestant clergy, sagacious as they were in most things, seem to have made the mistake of supposing that the active energy with which their lay brethren helped them to pull down Popery was actually the fruit of religious zeal, and to have expected that they took from the one Church merely to give to the other. The landowners, on their part, thought such an expectation so utterly preposterous that they did not condescend to reason with it, but, without hypocritical attempt to varnish their selfishness, called the expectations of the ministers a fond imagination.' Knox, on his death-bed, after he had lived to know the barons of his native land, denounced the nobility who had greedily kept all the possessions of the Kirk. The landowners acquired their lands mostly by theft. I see an hon. Member opposite smiling at that, but, if he wants proof of it, he can turn to the Second Series of the Register of the Privy Council of Scotland, edited by Professor Masson, and he will get there, in the Preface, the whole story of the Church lands in Scotland being raped from the Church at the time of the Reformation by the ancestors of many of the present large landowners in Scotland. They have escaped their liabilities of providing for the aged poor, of providing for education, for the right to work, and so on. They have devolved these liabilities, one after another, upon the public, and now we have come to this last one of all, the liability for the maintenance of religious observances in Scotland; and I agree with the Lord Advocate that this burden does hang on to the landed estates of Scotland to-day, and by no argument can we get out of it.

Here, however, is what is happening. For the last 100 years and more, the landowners have been feuing their estates in small portions, and they have got rid of the ecclesiastical liabilities to the extent of the land they have feued away, while the small feuars, who have taken over pieces of land for the purpose of building for themselves cottages, and so on, now find that, under this Bill, they are going to be compelled to shoulder liabilities, not on the value of the land, but on the value of the property they have built upon the land. They are being compelled to shoulder ecclesiastical liabilities that certainly should have been legally shouldered by the large landowners. While it may be argued that the small man, when he fens a quarter of an acre or half an acre in order to build a cottage, is presumed to know that he is taking over large ecclesiastical liabilities, at the same time, as a matter of fact, it is within the knowledge of every hon. Member who comes from Scotland that no small man, when he does feu such land, is ever told anything about ecclesiastical liabilities, and the question of ecclesiastical liabilities, future or potential, never enters his head.

Now we have this position—that, within the next three years, in certain parts of Scotland, the Church authorities may come along and say to all the small feuars in their parishes, "We call upon you to put the fabrics of the manses in proper tenantable repair. We are going to the Sheriff. The Sheriff's decision is final, and you must pay. If you do not pay, then the penalties which follow from refusal to pay will be yours." The Lord Advocate, in response to pleas of a similar character in Committee, came forward with a concession. He evidently recognised that there was some force in this contention that we made, and he agreed in let off the small feuars to the extent of £30. To the extent of £30 on their annual value in the valuation roll, they will not be taxed for the repair of the Church manses, and to that extent they are clear; but, with the recent rise in the annual value of property in Scotland, and the new municipal houses, or large numbers of them, at any rate, being rented at £32, £34, and so on, and with the fact that within the next two or three years the Government propose to decontrol house property, with the consequent rise in annual value, it will be found that pretty nearly every cottage dwelling in Scotland will be rolled in for payment of this tax.

I agree that they will not be rolled in for much, that the amounts will be comparatively small. For instance, a man who lives in a cottage standing on the valuation roll at £35, gets off in respect of the first 130, and is only going to pay on. the £5. It may be that the amount will only be 6d. in the and, therefore, he will only have to pay 2s. 6d.; but the collection of that 2s. 6d. will he absolutely impossible. Hundreds of thousands of people will not pay, and the expense of collecting these small sums will, in my judgment, be far more than the whole thing is worth. While there is yet time, I would plead with the Lord Advocate, in the interests of Church unity in Scotland, in the interests of ecclesiastical peace in Scotland, not to come along with legislation which will compel small cottage proprietors within the next two or three years to pay sums, although admittedly they are small, for purposes which thousands of them have conscientious objections to paying for at all.

Surely, with all these sums of money that we have heard about this afternoon — £20,000 from the Consolidated Fund, general taxation, the redemption of teinds, and so on—with all these sums of money falling into the coffers of the General Trustees, it is not too much to ask that the General Trustees of the Church of Scotland should put in tenantable repair the manses of that Church. I do not seek, as was thought by another Amendment in Committee, to wipe out the liabilities of the heritors altogether. I and those associated with me in this Amendment seek simply to wipe out of Clause 28 the existing provisions as to the repair of churches and manses, and to insert a provision that it shall hereafter be the duty of the General Trustees to put the manses in tenantable repair. I submit that it is not unreasonable to ask that the General Trustees should take over a liability which the great bulk of the people of Scotland, apart from lawyers, believe to have been in the past the liability of the large estate heritors, and not in any way a liability of the small cottage owner. On behalf of my hon. Friends, I beg to assure the Lord Advocate that we shall do our utmost—and it will not require very much—to stir up all the opposition we possibly can to the small cottage proprietors being taxed on the value of their' cottages to pay for the repair of manses, because they happen to be feuars of land, where the land only was originally the subject of taxation. We hold it to be a scandal and a shame that large landowners should have got free of their liability by throwing that liability on to the small cottage owners.


I beg to second the Amendment.

I have an Amendment of a similar character on the Paper myself, but, in accordance with the general wish, these Amendments have been linked together, and one must take one's share in the discussion, although one's Amendment is not in the exact terms of that which has been moved. In discussing this part of the Bill we are discussing one of the most important points which the Bill raises, namely, whether we are going to hand over to the Church of Scotland the churches and manses as they are, or whether the heritors are to be responsible for repairing them before they are finally handed over. That is the point that is raised in this part of the Bill. We have been told again and again in the course of these discussions that the Church is anxious that it should have the money and the property which are involved, handed over to them and under their awn control.

So far as the churches and manses are concerned, I am perfectly willing that these properties should be handed ever to the Church, but I am against the responsibility for the repairs of these properties being put upon the heritors before they are handed over, and I think the House need be under no illusion as to the serious nature of the liability which the repairs of churches and manses will place upon the shoulders of the heritors if the Bill pass as it now stands. Human nature being what it is, it is only natural that if this provision remains in the Bill, the trustees and ministers will see to it that these properties are put into a satisfactory state of repair before being handed over. I do not know a part of the Bill which will cause more trouble and dissatisfaction than this, because you have room here for 500 Cathcarts before we are finished. They will not be of the same substantial character, and there will not be the same sum involved in each of the churches or manses that there was in the Cathcart case, but you will have exactly the same principle involved and you will get the same trouble, and if you have it in anything like as large a number of cases as I am mentioning, we are storing up trouble for ourselves sufficient to undo the aim that the Lord Advocate has put forward again and again upstairs and in the House. The main purpose of the Bill was to prepare the ground for the union of the two great Presbyterian bodies, the Established Church and the United Free Church. believe if this remains in, you will largely undo the good work which would be accomplished if you were successful in the object you have in view, because you may get union in the churches, but you will have a sea. of dissatisfaction so far as the masses of the people are concerned if the Bill pass as it is.


May I first tell the House exactly how the matter stands? I think hon. Members who were not in the Committee will not gather a very accurate representation of the true state of matters from the two speeches to which we have just listened. The effect of the present Amendment would be to give a premium to neglect of an existing duty. At present the heritors, he they large or small, are liable for the repairs of churches and manses, and in so far as that liability has been fairly and properly carried out to date, there will not he a penny further needed under this Bill, because what we propose is that when the churches and manses are handed over to the Church, they shall be handed over in. a reasonable state of repair. Once handed over, there should be no future liability far repair at all. In a case where they have neglected their duty to repair, according to the Amendment they are to get off and to get freedom for having neglected those duties. It may not be their fault, of course, in some cases, but that is the result of the Amendment. It is also important to point out that we have carefully provided in the Bill that any question of want of repair on the handing over is not to include structural alterations—a very important point. In other words, it is a mere replacing of wear and tear, but nothing fresh has to be brought in, and no demand is to be made for structural alterations to the fabric before they are handed over. That takes out the heaviest items in the periodical levies which have been made on the heritors for these assessments, for it is the cases, as in Cathcart, where a complete new church was asked to be built, which have proved the troublesome ones in the past.

The hon. Member for Dundee (Mr. Johnston) talks about thousands of cottages. There will be very few of the housing scheme houses which have over £30 of rental. There may he a few Addison houses, but that is all. Most will run, at the highest, to £28, or thereabouts. Under the Bill as framed, £30 comes off everyone, and the man who has a £35 rental will only be liable for £5 of rental. He gets off the first £30, too. Therefore. even if your thousands of cottages include a £35 or £40 rental—which may happen in the Burghs, but will not happen in the towns—that man is getting off £30. I should be very much surprised if they were not exceedingly grateful for the reasonable way in which it is proposed to deal with them under the Bill. I heard with the deepest regret the hon. Member for Dundee indicate that he proposes to stir up all the trouble he can. It is the greatest possible pity that he should give vent to such a sentiment in the House, and still more that he should do it outside. One was, of course, impressed with the position of the small feuars, and it is for that reason that what is undoubtedly a very substantial concession was given.

The hon. Member referred to the fact that no one ever told the feuars that they were taking over ecclesiastical liabilities. It must have been a pretty careless lawyer who did not tell them that when they got their title. I can see it in the case of small property, but when you are getting up to £30, £40, or £50, I should be very much surprised if they did not know it perfectly well. After all, the taking over of that liability resulted in a reduced price having to be paid for the feu, and very naturally, when it is part of the consideration that you take over the burden, I am sure the House will be satisfied that in this case, where we are terminating an existing liability, where this is the one last demand we are making, and only on those who have neglected that existing liability, and that one demand terminates the liability for the future, and it excludes structural alterations, and lastly that over and above all, that £30 is taken off the rental of everyone, a deficiency which the Church has to bear—it is not spread over—any feeling of hardships or friction which might otherwise have been engendered, can have no substantial foundation under the Bill as now framed, and it would be most unjustifiable to suggest that there was any cause for heart-burning.


What will be included in the repair of the manses?


The ordinary repairs, but not structural alterations.


Would it include painting and papering?


Of course.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 285; Noes, 122

Division No. 98.] AYES. [6.40 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Bourns, Captain Robert Croft
Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. Barnett, Major Richard W. Brass, Captain W.
Albery, Irving James Barnston, Major Sir Harry Brasey, Sir Leonard
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Cllve
Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Centr'l) Bellalrs. Commander Carlyon W. Briscoe, Richard George
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W.Derby) Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Brocklebank, C. E. R.
Atholl, Duchess of Berry, Sir George Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.
Balrd, Rt. Hon. Sir John Lawrence Bethell, A. Broun-Lindsay, Major H.
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Birchall, Major J. Dearman Drown, Maj. D. C. (N'th'I'd, Hexham)
Balniel, Lord Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) Brown, Brlg.-Gen.H.C.(Berks, Newb'y)
Banks, Reginald Mitchell Blundell, F. N. Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)
Buckingham, Sir H. Gunston, Captain D. W. Perkins. Colonel E. K.
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Had.) Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple)
Burman, J. B. Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)
Burney, Lieut.-Com. Charles D. Harland, A. Philipton, Mabel
Burton, Colonel H. W. Harrison, G. 1. C. Plelou, O. P.
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Hartington, Marquess of Pllcher, G.
Campbell, E. T. Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennlngton) Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton
Cautley, Sir Henry B. Harvey, Mafor S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Price, Major C. W. M.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Haslam, Henry C. Balne, W.
Cayzer, Ma|. Sir Herbt.R. (Prtsmth.S.) Hawke, John Anthony Ramsden, E.
Cazalet, Captain Victor A. Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Rawson, Alfred Cooper
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) H. Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) Rees, Sir Beddoe
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Hennessy, Major J. R. G. Reid, D.D. (County Down)
Chapman, Sir S Hennlker-Hughan, Vice-Adm. Sir A. Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.
Charters, Brigadier-General J. Herbert, S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by) Rice, Sir Frederick
Chilcott, Sir Warden Hilton, Cecil Richardson, sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)
Christie, J. A. Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Clarry, Reginald George Holland, Sir Arthur Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes., Stretford)
Clayton, G. C. Holt, Captain H. P. Ropner, Major L.
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Homan, C. W. J. Ruggles-Brlse, Major E. A.
Cockerill, Brigadler-General G. K. Hopkins, 1.W. W Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Cohen, Major J. Brunei Horllck, Lieut.-Colonel J. N. Rye, F. G.
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Horne. Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S. Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Cope, Major William Howard, Captain Hon. Donald Sanders, Sir Hobert A.
Couper, J. B. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney,N.) Sanderson, Sir Frank
Courthope, Lieut.-Col. George L. Hudson, R.S.(Cumberland, Whlteh'n) Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gurtavt D.
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Hume, Sir G. H. 8avery,S. s.
Craig, Capt. Rt. Hon. C. C. (Antrim) Hurd, Percy A Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mel. (Renfrew, W)
Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Hutchlson,G.A.Clark(Mldl'n &P'bl'S) Shaw, Capt. W. W.(Wllts, Westb'y)
Cralk, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) Shepperson, E. W.
Crooke, J. Smedley (Derltend) lliffe, Sir Edward M. Shlels, Dr. Drummond
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Crookshank,Cpt.H.(Llndsey,Galnsbro) Jacob, A. E. Sinclair, Major Sir A.(Caithness)
Cunllffe, Joseph Herbert Jephcott, A.R. Skelton, A. N.
Curtis-Bennett, Sir Henry Joynson-Hlcks, Rt.Hon. Sir William Smith R.W.(Aberd'n & Klnc'dlne.C.)
Curzon, Captain Viscount Kldd, J. (Linllthgow) Smith-Carington, Neville W
Dalkeith, Earl of King. Captain Henry Douglas mithers, Waldron
Davidson, J.(Hertfd, Hemel Hempst'd) Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Somervlile, A. A.(Windsor)
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Knox, Sir Alfred Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe)
Davies, A. V. (Lancaster, Royton) Lamb, J. Q. Spender Clay, Colonel H.
Davies, MaJ. Geo. F.(Somerset,Yeovli) Lane-Fox, Colonel George R. Sprot, Sir Alexander
Davies, Sir Thomas (Clrencester) Loder, J. de V. Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Wlll'sden, E.)
Dawson. Sir Philip Looker, Herbert William Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Dean, Arthur Weliesley Louoher, L. Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland)
Doyle. Sir N. Grattan Lowe. Sir Francis Wiliam Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Drewe, C Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere Storry Deans, R
Duckworth, John Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Strickland, Sir Gerald
Eden, Captain Anthony Lumley, L.R Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Naico)
Edmonson, Major A.J Lynn, Sir Robert J Styles, Captain H. Walter
Elliot, Captain Walter E. MacAndrew, Charles Glen Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Ellis, R.G Macdonald, Capt. P. D.(f. of W.) Templeton, W.P
Elvedon, Viscount Macdonald, R. (Glnsgow, Cathcart) Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell.(Croydon,S.)
Everard, W. Lindsay Macintyre, lan Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Fairfax, Captain J.G Macmillan, Captain H Waddington, R
Falle, Sir Bertram G. McNelll, Rt. Hon. Ronald John Wallace, Captain D.E.
Falls, Sir Charies F. Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L.(Kingston-on-Hutt)
Fanshawe, Commander G.D Macqulsten, F.A. Warner, Brigadler-General W.W.
Fermony, Lord MacRobert, Alexander M. Warrender, Sir Victor
Fielden, E.B. Maltland, Sir arthur D. Steel Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley)
Flsher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A.L. Makins, Brlgadler-General E. Watson, Rt. Hon. W.(Carllsle)
Fleming, D. P Malone, Major P. S. Wells, S.R
Ford, P.J Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Wheler, Major Granvllle C.H.
Forestler-Walker, L. Margesson, Captain D. White, Lieut-Colonel G. Dalrymple
Forrest, W. Marrlott, Sir J.A.R. Williams, A.M.(Cornwall, Northern)
Foster, Sir Harry S. Mason, Lieut-Col. Glyn K. Williams, Com. c.(Devon, Torquay)
Foxcroft, Captain C.T Mltchell, W. Foot (Saffron Waldern) Wilson, Sir C.H.(Leeds, Central)
Fraser, Captain lan Mltchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Windsor-Clive, Lieut-Colonel George
Fremantle, Lieut-Colonel Francls E. Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Eari
Gadle, Lieut-Col. Anthony Moore-Brabazon, Lieut-Col. J.T.C. Wise, Sir Frdric
Ganzonl, Sir John Morrison, H. (Wllts, Sallsbury) Wolmer, Viscount
Gault, Lieut-Col. Andrew Hamilton Murchlson, C.K Womersley, W.J
Gee, Captain R. Nall, Lieut-Colonel Sir Joseph Wood, B.C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Gibbs, Col Rt Hon George Abraham Nelson, Sir Frank Wood, Rt. Hon E.(York, W. R, Ripon)
Gilmour, Lt-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Newton, Sir R.H.S.D.L. (Exeter) Wood, E.(Chest'r, Stalyb'ge & Hyde)
Goff, Sir Park Newton, Sir D.G.C. (Cambrldge) Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
Gower, Sir Robert Nlcholson, O.(Westmlnster) Wood, Sir S. Hill (High Peak)
Grace, John Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L
Grant, J.A Nuttall, Eills Yerburgh, Major Robert D.T
Greene, W.P. Crawford Oakley,T
Gretton, Colonel John O'Connor, T.J.(Bedfor, Luton) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Grotrian, H. Brent Owen, Major G Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings)
Gulnness, Rt. Hon. Walter E Captain Douglas Hacking and Mr. F. C. Thomson
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W.(Fife, West) Hayes, John Henry Short, Alfred(Wodnesbury)
Adamson, W. M.(Staff., Cannock) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A.(Burnley) Sitch, Charles H.
Alexander, A. V.(Sheffield, Hillsbro') Hirst, G. H. Smilile, Robert
Attlee, Clement Richard Hirst, W.(Bradford, South) Smith, Ben(Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Baker, J.(Wolverhampton, Bilston) Hore-Beilsha, Leslie Smith, H. B. Lees-(Keighley)
Barker, G.(Monmouth, Abertillery) Hudson, J. H.(Huddersfield) Smith, Rennle(Penistone)
Barnes, A. John, William(Rhondda, West) Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Barr, J Jones, Henry Haydn(Merioneth) Stamlord, T. W
Batey, Joseph Jones, Morgan(Caerphilly) Stephen, Campbell
Briant, Frank Jones, T. I. Mardy(Pontypridd) Sutton, J. E.
Broad, F.A. Kelly, W. T. Taylor, R. A.
Bromfield, William Kennedy, T Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H.(Darby)
Buchanan, G Klrkwood, D Thomas, Sir Robert John(Anglesey)
Clowes, S. Lansbury, George Thomson, Trevelyan(Mlddlesbro. W.)
Cluse, W. S. Lawson, John James Thorne, G. R.(Wolverhampton, E.)
Compton, Joseph Lee, F. Thorne, W.(West Ham, Plalstow)
Connolly, M. Lowth, T. Thurtle, E.
Cove, W. G. Lunn, William Tinker, John Joseph
Dalton, Hugh MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R.(Aberavon) Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Davies, Evan(Ebbw Vale) Mackinder, W. Varley, Frank B.
Davies, Rhys John(Westhoughton) Maclean, Nell(Glasgow, Govan) Viant, S. P.
Day, Colonel Harry March, S. Wallhead, Richard C.
Dennlson, R. Maxton, James Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
Duncan, c. Montague, Frederick Warne, G. H.
Dunnico, H. Morris, R. H. Watson, W. M.(Dunfermline)
Edwards John H.(Accrlngton) Morrison, R. C.(Tottenham,N.) Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D.(Rhondda)
Fenby, T. D. Murnin, H. Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney
Garro-Jones, Captain G.M. Oliver, George Harold Westwood, J.
Gibbins, Joseph Patin, John Henry Whiteley, W.
Gillett, George M. Paling, W. Wilkinson, EllenC
Gosling, Harry Parkinson, John Allen(Wigan) Williams, C. P.(Denbigh, Wrexham)
Greenall, T. Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Williams, David(Swansea, East)
Grentell, D. R.(Glamorgan) Ponsonby, Arthur Williams, Dr. J. H.(Lianelly)
Griffiths, T.(Monmouth, Pontypool) Potts, JohnS Williams, T.(York, Don Valley)
Groves, T. Richardson, R.(Houghton-le-Spring) Wilson, C. H.(Sheffield, Attercilfle)
Grundy, T. W. Riley, Ben Wilson, R. J.(Jarrow)
Guest, J.(York, Hemsworth) Ritson, J. Wright, W.
Guest, Dr. L. Haden(Southwark, N.) Robinson, W. C.(Yorks. W. R, Elland) Young, Robert(Lancaster, Newton)
Hall, F.(York, W. R., Normanton) Saklatvala, Shapurji
Hall, G. H.(Merthyr Tydvll) Salter, Dr. Alfred TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Harney,E. A. Scrymgeour, E. Mr. T. Johnston and Mr. Hardie
Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon Sexton, James

Amendments made: In page 24, line 38, leave out the first word "the" and insert instead thereof the word "his."

Page 25, line 15, at the end, insert new Sub-sections:

"(7) Whenever in. any parish it shall be necessary in view of anything to he done or agreed, or in consequence of anything done or agreed, or ordered to he done under or in pursuance of this Section to call a meeting of heritors, a circular letter containing an intimation of the meeting shall be sent twenty-one clear days before the meeting to every known heritor whose total rental within the parish as appearing in the valuation roll (whether such rental consists of one or more subjects) exceeds the sum of thirty pounds, and intimation of the meeting shall also be given by advertisement in a newspaper circulating in the parish once during each of two successive weeks and within the said period of twenty-one days.

(8) Subject to the modifications in the two immediately preceding Sub-sections of this Section the existing law and practice relating to heritors' meetings and ecclesiastical assessments shall apply to meetings of heritors to be held and ecclesiastical assessments to be imposed under, or in consequence. or pursuance of this Section."— [The Lord Advncate]