HC Deb 24 June 1925 vol 185 cc1527-9
69. Mr. OAKLEY

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been called to the case of William Harris, aged 55 years, a single man residing at 172, North Road, Ferndale, Glamorgan, who has been incapacitated from work since October, 1921, and who made application to the Pontypridd board of guardians for outdoor relief and was granted 5s. per week, which sum was afterwards increased to 7s. 6d. per week, whilst the scale of outdoor relief for a single man without dependants is at present 12s. 6d. a week, and will he have inquiries made into this case?

Sir K. WOOD

My right hon. Friend's attention has not been called to this case, The grant of outdoor relief in individual cases is a matter for the discretion of the board of guardians after consideration of the circumstances of the particular case, and he has no power to intervene.

Mr. OAKLEY

Will the hon. Gentleman make inquiries as to how this difference between the scale and the amount granted coincides with the amount he receives from his friendly society?

Sir K. WOOD

I am afraid inquiries will serve no purpose, because, as I have stated, the Minister has no power to interfere in a matter of this kind.

Mr. LANSBURY

Is it not a fact that the Minister does interfere when he thinks boards of guardians pay too much, and, therefore, should he not interfere when they underpay in this disgraceful way?

Sir K. WOOD

I think what my hon. Friend has in mind is when the payments are made illegally.

Mr. LANSBURY

No. I would like to ask the hon. Gentleman whether he is not aware that his Chief at this present moment is trying to bring pressure to bear on the West Ham Board of Guardians to administer a flat scale for the whole of the applicants, and, therefore, that his statement just now that the Minister cannot lay down a scale is absolutely untrue?

Sir K. WOOD

No. I think what is happening in that case is that the Minister is conferring with the local authority, with a view to advising them in the matter, but my statement still remains true that he has no power to intervene in the particular case in question.

Mr. LANSBURY

If the hon. Member is so ignorant of the doings of his Department—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"]—I will say, if he is unaware of what is happening—

Mr. SPEAKER

The question deals with a particular case, but the hon. Member is dealing with some general principle.

Mr. LANSBURY

If you will excuse me, Mr. Speaker, I am not. The point of the question is that the Parliamentary Secretary has just stated that the Minister has no power to do a certain thing, and I am asking whether it is not a fact that his Chief has laid down a scale, in writing, which he is attempting to make the West Ham Board of Guardians administer to the whole of their applicants. He has stated that he has no power to do it, and yet he is trying to do it there.

Mr. SPEAKER

That may be so, but it does not refer to this case.

Sir HENRY CRAIK

On a point of Order. May I ask whether it is in order for any hon. Member to occupy the time of the House by putting, as a further question to a Minister: "Is there any cause for the Minister's ignorance?" Is that complying either with the courtesies or Rules of this House?

Mr. LANSBURY

I withdrew that.

Mr. SPEAKER

I think it must be left to me to deal with questions of Order.