HC Deb 19 June 1925 vol 185 cc980-3
Lieut.-Colonel HENDERSON

I beg to move, in page 23, line 1, to leave out the words "a station officer or senior," and to insert instead thereof the words of a higher rank than sub-officer and of a lower rank than chief. This is rather more than a drafting Amendment, and it deserves a word of explanation. The word "senior" has crept into the Bill by mistake in place of the words "second officer," but as the Clause is drafted it does not really make the position quite clear. The Departmental Committee on Fire Brigades laid down very definitely that there was a certain amount of confusion in regard to the ranks held by officers of Fire Brigades and that that confusion should be cleared up by having a definition as to what these different ranks were. We have made some reference to that in the last paragraph of the Schedule. In order to carry out that recommendation we also want to make it quite clear in this part of the Schedule that there is no confusion as to the different ranks. That is why we divide them into the three classes.

Captain BOURNE

I beg to Second the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made:

In page 23, line 3, leave out the words "of a higher rank", and insert instead thereof the words "a chief officer".

In page 24, line 5, leave out the words, "a station officer or senior", and insert instead thereof the words "of a higher rank than sub-officer and of a lower rank than chief ".

In page 24, line 7, leave out the words "of a higher rank", and insert instead thereof the words "a chief officer"— [Lieut.-Colonel Henderson.]

Lieut.-Colonel HENDERSON

I beg to move, in page 24, line 18, to leave out the word "sixteenth", and insert instead thereof the word "sixtieth".

The object of this Amendment is to correct a printing error. It is obvious that the expression to be used must be "one-sixtieth" and not "one-sixteenth."

Captain BOURNE

I beg to second the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Lieut.-Colonel HENDERSON

I beg to move, in page 26, line 3, after the words "chief officers," to insert the words "including Superintendents-in-charge."

This Amendment is necessary because in some brigades the chief officer is known as the superintendent-in-charge. There is a rank of superintendent which corresponds with that of district officer. We want to make it quite clear that the superintendents-in-charge and the superintendents are of different ranks.

Captain BOURNE

I beg to second the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."—[Lieut.-Colonel Henderson.]

Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSON

This Bill most usefully fills a little gap, and I congratulate the hon. and gallant Member for Bootle (Lieut.-Colonel Henderson) on the ability he has shown in conducting the Bill through to its success.

Mr. LAWSON

I should like to confirm what has been said by the Under-Secretary to the Home Office, and to congratulate the hon. and gallant Member. The piloting of this Bill through its stages reflects very great credit upon him. He worked very hard on the Royal Commission and on the Departmental Committee, and he was under no obligation to take upon himself this very burdensome duty. It cannot be said that it was merely a matter of looking for votes, because there is no question in his division or elsewhere of this being a matter of political propaganda. The hon. and gallant Member is entitled to the gratitude of the House and to the gratitude of this section of workers in the country for what he has done purely as a matter of good will towards a deserving class.

Captain BENN

I should like to offer an apology to the Solicitor-General for Scotland for having said there was no one here representing the Scottish Office. As far as my knowledge of the Scottish fire brigades goes, which is confined to my own constituency, which has a considerable fire force, they will accept very gratefully this Bill, and they will be very grateful to the hon. and gallant Member for Bootle for the skill and industry with which he has piloted the Bill through.

12 N.

Lieut.-Colonel HENDERSON

I should like to thank the House for the way it has helped me in regard to the passage of this Bill. It is entirely due to the forbearance of the House that I have been able to get the various stages of the Bill through at such an early part of the Session. With respect to what has been said by the hon. Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Lawson) I may say that all of us are at times actuated with a desire to try to carry through to a finish something to which we first set our hands. It is five or six years ago since I first definitely took up this question in the House, and I felt then that I should like, if possible, to try to get a Bill of this kind on the Statute Book. If it has been my good fortune to do so now, it is due not to any merit I possess, but entirely to the forbearance which the House has shown me in regard to the passage of the Bill.

It may interest the hon. and gallant Member for Leith (Captain Benn) to know that I represented Scotland on the Royal Commission and on the Departmental Committee, because at that time I sat for a Scottish constituency. I cannot say that all the local authorities in Scotland have always regarded this Bill as an unmixed blessing. I am afraid that some of them have looked upon it with a certain amount of suspicion. However, the local authorities generally have met me ex- tremely fairly on this question. There has been a great deal of give and take both on the part of the fire brigades themselves, the men in the fire brigades and the local authorities, and I am convinced that if all the difficulties with which we are faced to-day were met in the same spirit of give and take with which this little Bill has been met, we should go a long way towards achieving success.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill read the Third time, and passed.