CLAUSE 1.—(Establishment of agricultural wages committees and an Agri cultural Wages Board.) (Hansard, 28 July 1924)

§ Sir CLIFFORD CORY
I have handed in a manuscript Amendment, in page 1, line 10, after the word "Wales," to insert the words "and for the Scilly Isles." Can I move that here?

§ Mr. ACLAND
On a point of Order. There is a proposed new Schedule, in which all the areas are set out in their order, and would it not be better for this Amendment in regard to the Scilly Isles to be moved there rather than in Clause 1?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
Is the purpose of the hon. Member for St. Ives (Sir C. Cory) to set up a separate committee for the Scilly Isles? If so, I think the proper place would be on the proposed new Schedule.

§ Sir C. CORY
Would it be possible to put the Scilly Isles in the Schedule without having them first mentioned in Clause 1?

§ Sir JOHN SIMON
On a point of Order. It would be difficult to put the Scilly Isles in the Schedule. [Interruption.]

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The hon. Member for Silvertown (Mr. J. Jones) is continuously interrupting, and I shall have to order him to remove himself from the House if he cannot keep quiet.

§ Sir J. SIMON
Would it be possible to insert this Amendment in the proposed Second Schedule, in view of the fact that it deals only with the counties of England and Wales? Would it not be necessary to bring in the Scilly Isles by an Amendment in the first Clause?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I am not aware whether the Scilly Isles are a county or not.

§ Sir C. CORY
They are not.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I was allowing the hon. Member to move the Amendment here, so as to get a clear answer on that question.

§ Major McLEAN
Are not the Scilly Isles already covered in line 9 of the proposed new Schedule, where it says, "Counties of Cornwall and Isles of Scilly"?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I am not clear what is the object of the hon. Member for St. Ives in wishing to move his Amendment in Clause 1.

§ Sir C. CORY
My object is that, for geographical reasons, it is almost impossible for the representatives of the Scilly Isles to attend a committee on the mainland very often. For one thing, boats cannot often run. I would point out again that the nature of their crops is different from what it is in England, and the circumstances of the islands are very different from those on the mainland.

§ Sir HENRY CAUTLEY
If the intention of the hon. Member is simply to have a separate committee, would it not better come as an Amendment to the Schedule? I have a similar point to raise myself.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
Having heard the hon. Member for St. Ives, I have come to the conclusion that the Schedule is the proper place at which to raise the Amendment, and if he will submit it then, I will consider it.

§ Mr. MOND
On a point of Order. I have an Amendment on the Paper, with other hon. Members, in Clause 2, page 2, to insert a new Sub-section (5). Is it not possible that, "subject to the provisions 1783 of this Act," agricultural wages committees shall fix minimum rates?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
We have not dealt with that point yet.

§ Sir J. SIMON
May I respectfully submit, purely in the interest of subsequent order, that as the Bill deals with an agricultural wages committee for each county in England and Wales, and as that is the scope of Clause 1, it is very difficult to see how you can in the Schedule deal with a place which is not a county of England or Wales? [HON. MEMBERS: "It is!"]

§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Walter Smith)
I beg to move, in page 1, line 14, after the second word "the," to insert the word "first."

§ The MINISTER of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Noel Buxton)
I beg to move, in page 2, line 3, at the end, to insert a new Sub-section— (4) The committees first established shall be established for the counties and combined counties specified in the Second Schedule to this Act. I might say that the Schedule as now framed is the result of an agreement which has been come to between representatives of the National Farmers' Union and the Workers' Union.

§ Sir DOUGLAS NEWTON
I beg to move, as an Amendment to the proposed Amendment, at the end to add the words but the Minister shall, in the case of combined counties, on representation duly made by the committee concerned, establish, when so requested, a committee upon the basis of an administrative county committee. I venture to move these additional words because it is not clear to me that it will be within the power of the Minister, once the Schedule has been passed, to set up committees subsequently on the basis of a county administrative area. In the area with which I am associated there was, under the terms of the Corn Production Act, 1917, a grouping of several counties, and I may say the group worked remarkably badly. That was admitted by both workers and employers. I am glad to 1784 notice that in the Schedule new submitted there has been a re-grouping of some of those areas, but even now two administrative counties are in some cases grouped together. It appears to me it would be much better that the Minister should have power, on due representation made by the committees concerned, to establish committees on a county basis, and, with that end in view, I venture to move the addition of these words.

§ Sir H. CAUTLEY
I beg to second the Amendment to the proposed Amendment.

§ Mr. BUXTON
The arrangement come to was the result of full discussion, but, if no objection is taken now, I do not see any reason why we should not accept the hon. Member's Amendment.

§ Mr. MORRIS
I see the new Schedule provides for certain counties to group together. Owing to the difficulties of transport, it may be very difficult to combine two counties, and this Amendment would enable two counties, if they wished, to set up again a committee for each county.