HC Deb 07 May 1923 vol 163 cc2019-22

Any Order in Council made after the passing of this Act under the Special Constables Act, 1914, as amended by this Act shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament as soon as may be after it is made, and if an Address is presented to His Majesty by either of those Houses within twenty-one days on which that House has sat next after any such Order has been laid before it praying that the Regulations made thereby shall be annulled, His Majesty may thereupon by Order in Council annul the Regulations, and the Regulations so annulled shall forthwith become void, without prejudice to the validity of any proceedings which may in the meantime have been taken thereunder or to the making of any new Regulations:

Provided that Orders in Council under the said Act shall not be deemed to be statutory Rules within the meaning of Section one of the Rules Publication Act, 1893.

Mr. SPEAKER

The next Amendment on the Paper, in the name of the hon. Member for Edge Hill (Mr. Hayes)—after the word "made" ["made after the passing"] to insert the words "before the passing of this Act under the Special Constables Act, 1914, or made"—is unnecessary. The Regulations will all come under this Bill. The three follow- ing Amendments on the Paper, in the names of the hon. Members for Wansbeck (Mr. Warne) and Newcastle-under-Lyme (Colonel Wedgwood)—to leave out the word "if" ["if an address is presented"] and to insert instead thereof the word "unless"; to leave out the word "either" ["by either of those Houses"] and insert instead thereof the word "both"; and to leave out the word "annulled" ["shall be annulled"] and insert instead thereof the word "authorised"—are wrong in point of form.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

On that point, Sir, the Amendments which I have put upon the Paper were intended to ensure that Regulations made under the Act shall be capable of being debated in this House. As the Government has drafted the Clause, it provides that any Order in Council shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament, and if an Address is presented to His Majesty praying that the Regulations shall be annulled, His Majesty may thereupon annul the Regulations. As is well known, that method of procedure is extremely difficult, and the object of the Amendment is to ensure that if anybody objects to the Regulations there shall be the possi- bility of a Debate in the House. The Amendments seek to make the Clause read as follows: Any Order in Council made after the passing of this Act.… shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament as soon as may be after it is made, and unless an Address is presented to His Majesty by both Houses, etc. That is to ensure that an Address shall be presented confirming the Regulations rather than that an Address may be presented against the Regulations. The position is that if the Government choose to refuse time for a discussion of an Address against these Regulations, it is practically impossible to get any such discussion. These Regulations are the most important part of the Bill, and it is on these Regulations that questions will have to be thrashed out as to the training of the special constables. We shall have to discover then whether the special constables are intended purely for constabulary duties or are to undertake certain work in connection with certain classes of trade disputes. It is essential that any Regulations of that sort should be discussed in the House. The Government are following the bad habit of introducing a Bill and leaving all the real matter of the Bill to be dealt with under Regulations, and I submit we should have an opportunity of discussing these Regulations and it should not be left solely to the whim of the Government whether an opportunity for such discussion is allowed or not.

Mr. SPEAKER

I am not here to deal with that point. All I have to consider is the question of order, and if the hon. and gallant Member's Amendments were accepted, they would reduce this Clause to a hopeless condition. I know what the hon. and gallant Member wants, and there is a standard form which would have been in order; but the Amendments that are before me would make the Clause quite hopeless, because first there would be an Order in Council made by His Majesty, and then a proposal that His Majesty should be authorised to make it.

Colonel WEDGWOOD

May I put it to you that the effect of the Amendments would be to make the Clause read in this way: Any Order in Council made after the passing of this Act under the Special Constables Act, 1914, as amended by this Act shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament as soon as may be after it is made, and unless an Address is presented to His Majesty by both those Houses within 21 days on which that House has sat.… praying that the Regulations made thereby shall be authorised, etc. I have only put down three Amendments here because the Debate will take place on the first of those Amendments, but it is obvious that there would have to be minor alterations lower down in the Clause in order to make it conform to the Amendments on the Paper.

Mr. SPEAKER

I am afraid I really must adhere to the Parliamentary form in this matter. There is another method, but I cannot point it out now. In certain cases a Draft Order is placed before the House when authority or approval is required. The present Amendments, however, would wreck the Clause entirely.