ARRESTS IN GREAT BRITAIN. (Hansard, 12 March 1923)

Mr. J. RAMSAY MacDONALD
(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can make a statement with regard to the reported arrest and immediate deportation to Ireland of a number of people residing in this country; the reason for the action taken, and the authority under which he acted?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I will, if I may, answer this question, and another question of which Private Notice has also been given to me by the hon. Member for Silvertown (Mr. J. Jones).

§ Mr. J. JONES
On a point of Order. I want to know if my question is exactly the same as put by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon. With due respect, I have raised a different issue altogether?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The hon. Member will have his opportunity if he raises a specific question after the hon. Gentleman has answered the general one.

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I was proposing to read out the question of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Silvertown, and I thought my general answer would cover the points of both questions. The question of the hon. Member is as follows:— To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that a school teacher, born in England, named Frank Fitzgerald, of Forest Gate, was arrested about 12 a.m. on Sunday morning, 11th March and has since been deported to Ireland; if he will state the reason for this 1044 arrest; and if there is any legal redress for a citizen of this country who has been arrested and deported in this way? Certain arrests, one of which is referred to by the hon. Member for Silver-town in his question, were carried out during the week-end in pursuance of orders made by me and the Secretary of Scotland respectively, directing that a number of persons shall be interned under No. 14B of the Restoration of Order in Ireland Regulations. There has lately been a progressive increase in Irish Republican activity here. We are in possession of material clearly indicating the existence of a quasi-military organisation controlled by a person calling himself "Officer Commanding Britain"—

§ Mr. LANSBURY
Galloper Smith!

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
—and of an intention on the part of that organisation primarily to do everything in their power, in co-operation with the Irregulars in Ireland, to overthrow the Free State Government, and also in certain contingencies to resort to acts of violence in this country in pursuance of their unlawful aims. It was clearly the duty of His Majesty's Government being in possession of such information, to take action, and we have for sometime past been in consultation with the Free State Government as to the best method of dealing with the situation. The arrests have been made at the request of that Government. The persons arrested are all of Irish origin and are either members of the organisation referred to, or have supported it directly or indirectly. They will be held in custody by the Free State Government in their own country. This seemed, on the whole, after full consideration, the simplest and most effective method of dealing with these persons who, claiming to be Irish, and to be acting in the interests of Ireland, have so grossly abused the hospitality of this country.

Captain HAY
That is begging the question.

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
If hon. Members express the wish to be more fully informed as to the organisation against which this action has been directed, I shall be pleased, as soon as possible, to place in the Library illustrative specimens of documents which have lately fallen into our hands. The persons arrested have all 1045 been informed that they may, if they wish, make representations to an Advisory Committee, which will be presided over by someone who holds, or has held, high judicial office.

Mr. MacDONALD
Arising out of the answer, first of all on the point of legality: Does the Government hold that the Restoration of Order, Ireland, Regulations, run in this country; and, secondly, with reference to the Committee, is that Committee sitting in this country, and are the deported persons to be allowed to return to this country during the inquiry into the deportation?

§ Mr. JONES
Before the right hon. Gentleman answers, I should like to ask if a reply is going to be given to my question. My question relates to a British subject, born in England, and if such are going to be deported without appeal to the ordinary Courts of Law? If this man has been guilty of any offence against the State, I am not here to defend him, but I am asking, are not the ordinary Courts in this country available? [Interruption.] I am going to go on if I am chucked out!

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
With regard to the last question, I was told that this person was engaged in this organisation.

§ Mr. JONES
He was not. He is a British subject. Why do you not answer my question?

HON. MEMBERS
It has been answered.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The hon. Member must really listen to the answer.

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I have already said that this man has the power of appearing before an Advisory Committee.

§ Mr. JONES
He is an English subject, and he has a right to appear before the Courts of this country. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] I am not going to give way. This man is an English subject, and he has no right to be deported without trial.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The Leader of the Opposition has already asked that question—

§ Mr. JONES
The Leader of the Opposition does not know what he is talking about.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The question is under what Statutes were these proceedings taken.

§ Mr. JONES
Why should a man he deported like this?

§ Mr. LANSBURY
I want to make it perfectly clear—[Interruption.]

§ Mr. SPEAKER
Will the hon. Member put it in the form of a question.

§ Mr. LANSBURY
Does the home Secretary claim the right to deport a British subject, born in this country, to another country without any trial either by judge or jury?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I have already answered that question. My answer is that I have taken legal advice on this matter, and I am assured that I am acting within my rights. With regard to the question as to where the location of the Advisory Committee would be, it would be in this country.

§ Mr. JONES
In consequence of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply given to my question, I beg to move that the House be adjourned on a matter of definite and public importance.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will draft his Motion, and I will deal with it at the end of questions.

Mr. MacDONALD
Has my right hon. Friend acted under the Restoration of Order (Ireland) Act, Regulation?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
Yes, I have.

Mr. MacDONALD
Has the Home Secretary specifically asked whether these Regulations run in this country?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
Yes, and I have acted under Regulation 14B of the Act and I am advised—

§ Mr. N. MACLEAN
Read it.

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I have not got it here, but I am advised that I am acting under the legal authority provided in that Section.

§ Mr. WEBB
Did the legal advice which the right hon. Gentleman took specifically cover the point that the Restoration of Order (Ireland) Act applies in this country to a British subject?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I have taken legal advice on all the points concerned in this case.

§ Mr. SAKLATVALA
I desire to ask if in the case of Frank FitzGerald, of 23, Cave Street, the right hon. Gentleman has not made a mistake and mixed him up with another Irishman of the same name, and whether he has deported entirely a wrong person? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this particular Frank FitzGerald is not the Frank FitzGerald concerned in a machine gun case recently, and is he aware that this particular Frank FitzGerald has never functioned in any of the Irish organisations after the establishment of the Free State in Southern Ireland, and is he aware that he has actually resigned his membership of the Self-Determination League, and has he not deported the wrong man?

§ Viscount CURZON
Is this the gentleman who was arrested at the National Liberal Club?

§ Mr. JONES
He was arrested in his own house.

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I have no information that he was arrested at the National Liberal Club.

§ Captain O'GRADY
Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether this particular Act to which he refers became law before the Treaty was agreed to in Dublin or after; and, further, can the right. hon. Gentleman say whether this particular Committee has any power greater than the British Courts in the matter of jurisdiction over men who were born here in England and are British subjects?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I cannot answer legal questions of that character. I think, however, my previous answer covers the point, because I have taken legal advice.

§ Captain O'GRADY
Were any warrants read over to the people who were arrested, or were they arrested bylettres de cachet like you are deporting the Indians?

§ Mr. N. MACLEAN
As the Home Secretary has quoted a certain Regulation, will he read it to the House?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
The Regulation can be found in the Restoration of Order (Ireland) Act and it. Is Regulation No. 14B.

§ Mr. MACLEAN
Is it within the competence of the Home Secretary to give an answer on such an important matter without quoting the whole of the text?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
I am quite ready to read out the Regulation to the House.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
Presently, I am going to call on the hon. Member for Silvertown (Mr. Jones) to submit his Motion.

§ Mr. MACLEAN
The right hon. Gentleman is prepared to read the Regulation?

§ Mr. BRIDGEMAN
Yes, but it is so long.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I think it will be better to deal with this matter on the Motion of the hon. Member for Silvertown, which I shall presently put to the House.

§ Mr. J. JONES
I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, "the action of the Government on Saturday night last and Sunday in arresting and deporting certain British subjects to Ireland."