HC Deb 05 July 1923 vol 166 cc591-2
2. Mr. A. GREENWOOD

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the Amendments to the Regulations of the Special Grants Committee issued during the current year were approved by the Members of that Committee?

Major TRYON

The recent revision of the Regulations of the Special Grants Committee was carried out in full consultation with the Committee. Some of the Amendments originated with me and some with the Committee, while others arose out of the joint discussions. It would scarcely be practicable to analyse the exact measure of agreement reached, nor would it be desirable to do so, as the power of the Committee to make Regulations is expressly subject to my approval, and the ultimate responsibility for the Regulations, therefore, rests with me.

Mr. GREENWOOD

Have the Regulations, which have been submitted as a whole, been approved by the Special Grants Committee, and, if not, is not the Special Grants Committee being placed in an invidious position, having regard to its statutory character?

Major TRYON

Some of the Regulations have been approved by the Committee, and some have not. It does not rest with the Committee to decide the spending of public funds.

Mr. GREENWOOD

Am I to take it that the Minister empowers himself to issue, under the name of the Special Grants Committee, Regulations which have not been approved by them?

Major TRYON

It means that the Regulations have to be approved by the Minister.

Mr. GREENWOOD

I am asking about the Regulations of the Special Grants Committee, and whether they have been approved by the Special Grants Committee; and, if not, whether it is competent that they should be published under the name of the Special Grants Committee.

Mr. MACPHERSON

Is it not the fact that the Minister of Pensions is responsible for all these Regulations, and that any act performed by the Special Grants Committee must be defended by him?

Major TRYON

That is so. The position is that none of these Regulations have any power whatever unless they are confirmed by the Minister of Pensions. It seems to me extraordinary that some hon. Members opposite should suggest that the Committee has power to spend public funds without the approval of Parliament or of the Minister.

Mr. GREENWOOD

I have not yet had an answer to my question, which is perfectly simple, and the answer of the right hon. Gentleman was an evasion. I want to know whether it is right that Regulations of the Special Grants Committee should be published without the approval of the Special Grants Committee.

Major TRYON

The hon. Member has got it the wrong way about. These Regulations carry no authority without the sanction of the Minister of Pensions. My answer is perfectly clear, if the hon. Member will study it.

Mr. LAWSON

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—it is no use his laughing—I want to protest; business cannot go on if we cannot get answers to questions—is it not a fact that this afternoon the right hon. Gentleman informed me that the Special Grants Committee has the right to make its own Regulations, and is it not a fact that he has forced new Regulations upon this Committee, and in spite of the Committee, which have taken £2,500 of sickness grants from widows of our dead heroes?

Major TRYON

No, Sir, it is not the fact.

Mr. LAWSON

Did not the right hon. Gentleman tell me this afternoon that the Special Grants Committee has the right to make its own Regulations; and is it not the fact that he has forced new Regulations upon the Committee?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is proposing to raise the question to-night, and we had better deal with it then.